combat flyfishing:subject line weight

[shooter]

it was Chris Kowaleski's post that got me on this subject, i am talking about flyfishing for gills and chinks here ,not fishing 2 weight rigs with 2lb tippets for the lady trout on clear streams,

i have seen people that are trying to figure out why they can not cast with the fly rod they bought at walmart for fourty bucks.

 i have posted my views on this on this site several times,most people i know that fish gills with fly rods are not packing $100 dollar rods let alone $250 dollar ones.

 the fly rod has to load to cast, in an open stream where you can back cast that is not hard to do in most cases.

 but in a boat fishing cover we have a problem,this requires the roll cast and to fish under trees where full extension of the rod is not possible ,one must generate line speed with half the rod arc and sometimes a fourth of the rod arc.

 here is where the heavy line comes into play,being able to load the rod quickly ,using a violent short cast with my left thumb pushing the handle just above my right hand,like a two handed   tennis  stroke,you can make a 30 foot cast and keep a tight  low roll.

  we are talking about combat fly fishing here, it takes a different approach,but one thing is always true the right line can make a cheep rod cast great.

  has anyone here tried to over line their rods,if not you are missing out it can make a big difference in your casting .

[jim cosgrove]

yes i have shooter partially on your advice and because i broke the tip off a 5 wt i got as a gift,i got a 7 wt wf line on it and it not only roll casts well but will fling a heavily weighted clouser minnow with out ripping my ear off.i always seem to be finding fish when shore fishing with no way to backcast.i can also cast sideways pretty well if you can picture it

[Lord of the Fly , Rods]

What Shooter said, plus backhanding your cast in tight cover, necessity makes you think outside the box when you are trying to get to the target rich bluegill enviroment when it comes to casting with your flyrod. I still have other tricks that I wont mention here because I think yall would make fun of me.   LOFR

[shooter]

no i am a  believer in what ever trips your trigger ,if it works for you  it works. the problem i had was casting under trees ,being able to load the rod and generate enough line speed with a short stroke ,while at the same time keeping the fly rod tip out of the limbs. l like jim use a side cast and even an overhand cast.

 here in Louisiana we have a lot of cypress and tupelo gum trees in our lakes also button wood bushes and thickets .

 all of this cover holds fish but is a challenge to fish with a fly rod.

[Ray Ditzenberger]

Yep, I overline some rods. Some rods don't need overlining for me anyway. I do not do a lot of roll casting though. Can I assume you are using DT lines rather than WF? I just yesterday fished a small lake bank that had a heavy over growth. Some places the bank was a least 10' behind the limbs hanging into the water. I could not even see the bank in lots of places and I was fishing under a heavy over hang for most of the shore line. You need a tight loop cast low. However it does not give the fly a soft landing. hehehe

[Jen Nayfly]

Seldom do I fish anything other than my 2wt. When I first got it I put 2wt line on. Did NOT like the line so ever since both my floating and sinking line is 4wt and I can cast twice the distance. Have bought nothing else since using the 4wt line.

[Ray Ditzenberger]

May I ask the brand name of the rod? I also have a 2wt that I had to overline. It is a TFO.

[dick tabbert]

Thanks Jen for your input and wisdom on the fly lines and I just think about it which I never did before I though if you used a 2wt fly rod you have to use a 2wt fly line and 4wt and so on but after hearing what you said it make sense. I guess as long as we have a breaking point before it reaches the rod that's really all you need. I can see how you can increase your casting distance with a heavier line makes sense to me know. Again thank you for sharing I like it when something make sense.

[Ray Ditzenberger]

Somehow it has become fashionable to use 'fast' rods. It seems to be a badge of honor to have the fastest rod. Many rods today are under rated by the manufacturer to exude a rod as fast. One line under rated is common. Under rated by 2 lines is not uncommon. Under rated by 3 lines is not common but there are some out there. If you take a rod that is properly rated and put a line on it that is 3 lines heavier it will actually not cast well at all. It is actually possible to break a rod by over lining. Most rods will handle 3 different weight lines with no problem. It is just what works well for any given caster. I have some rods over lined and some with the recommended line. I have one that I have under lined. It is an old glass rod which tend to be on the slow side in any case. To make issue more confusing....The line manufacturers are also not following the industry standards on the weight of their lines. There are 5wts and then there are 5wts in both lines and rods. IMO this hurts the industry from the stand point of all new potential fly casters. They don't know what to buy and when they do buy what they think will match or at least work properly and in fact does not work well so they get frustrated and walk away from fly fishing. They are stepping on their own &%#*'s.    

[dick tabbert]

Sounds good but can you explain what fast rods and slow rods are and do. Thanks

[Ray Ditzenberger]

The rod action is a function of how deep into the rod blank bends. Slow bends clear to the butt of the rod and a fast rod just the tip section bends. Check out the TFO fly rod site. I think it shows Fast, Medium and Slow action rods.

[dick tabbert]

Thanks for the comeback Ray.

[DAVID L EITUTIS]

HOW RIGHT YOU ARE RAY !!!!!! I SPOSE to a new comer to fly fishing it is a bit overwhelming to try and figure it all out on your own . For a novice I guess the best thing to do on a budget is try and get info from old timers and see what they say. I"m very opinionated about fly rods either graphite or glass. 
   My input has nothing to do with expense and if a fellas on a tight budget I"d shop around and sample both types of materials if possible.Most of the higher end shops won't have any fiberglass rods to sample but lots of different models of graphite. Line and rod combinations are endless and before I laid down alot of money for a Sage rod or the like I"d try to find an all around rod that excels at nothing but is usable in a wide variety of situations and size of fly's to be used.
   Modern lines are so advanced over old stuff it is truly amazing the selections of coatings and weight configurations available to us all. 
   If I worked in a fly shop I"d do all I could to make a first time purchaser feel comfortable and confident with his rod. I'd do all I could to steer em away from short , fast, ultra light fly models. IMHO it just could be too frustrating for a beginner to try and get a handle on it all ...... The short fast ones have a place , but more for the slightly advanced caster than a novice......
   ONE major advance in last ten years has been the coatings they put on the lines now. Ya hardly ever see cracked or dried out lines like in years passed and those are a blessing in disguise and if I was willing to spend alot of dough , it would be on the line and shift the focus from the rods ...........