Comment

Comment by Dwayne Denison on January 9, 2012 at 9:57am

Leo, Thanks for info. I never thought about line slipping on bobber. I guess the stretch of line, on bobber would be another factor? Once again thanks, it all makes since.

Comment by Leo Nguyen on January 9, 2012 at 9:47am

Dwayne, you're not too far off. I'm not a physicist, but I a got a few here that offered insights, and they too are avid fishermen.

Your reasoning is almost there. What's missing is this: whether it's a fixed float, bobber afixed directly to the line without any slippage, energy is still loss based on the energy transferred from the bites and the counter energy caused by the float's buoyancy.  What ever energy is left, will be transferred to the main line. This is the same for the slip float rig, as the energy is lost when the bobber stopper snags on the float. Remaining energy will be then transferred to the main line. However, both rigs must have a taut line to have to receive optimal energy transfer from the float to the rod. Otherwise, both system are 95% identical, since the slip rig designed to ensure the line sinks, pulling the bobber stopper completely to the float.

Hope I'm not way off myself somewhere.

Comment by Dwayne Denison on January 9, 2012 at 8:54am

Johnny, once again great info. I do have something on my mind. I hope that I can explain this, as do not write as well as you.

In slip float fishing you weight and bouyancy has to be more correct than fixed float fishing, here is my reasoning.

 

In slip float fishing the energy from bite in transfered thru line and stored in stop, then transfered to bead, which moves float. Lots of loss of energy. Compared to fixed float, where line is directly tie to float.

 

If I am way off base here, please tell me.......Thanks Dwayne

Comment by David, aka, "McScruff" on January 9, 2012 at 4:23am

Beautiful - I need to obtain longer rods.

Comment by Leo Nguyen on January 8, 2012 at 9:46pm

Excellent info Johnny. Will definite put this in my info arsenal for data analysis. Your future blogs would be stellar and invaluable.

Comment by Johnny wilkins on January 8, 2012 at 9:25pm

Ah - you bring up a good point - I see information on live bait float fishing butchered consistently on tackle package instructions, in books and online nearly 100% of the time. Even a defacto source for fishing information Ken Schultz' (Field & Stream Editor) Fishing Encyclopedia has errors in its illustration because of a printer error.

I know because the modern master of American float fishing Mick Thill  personally corrected my copy's illustration and signed it. You are very good on some of your information for sure- I like the using line as your stopper and not many people know you can use the same line you are fishing with to create a stopper - in fact this is the way Thill does it because it works the best.

What you want to do is stack a few larger split shot 14 - 24 inches off the hook length (leader). The float will rest on top of this shot stack when you are casting. Beneath this float stack you want to put a fineness shot / smaller drop shot. This will create the "dropping" action at the end of your presentation. If you have your float setup correctly  this final shot will end up dipping your shot to the last colored line on your float. 

Well, even this line is a bit off because most manufacturers have no idea what the lines mean or how to set up a float so they put their lines all over the place.

Float fishing is viewed by some as simple. But those who view it as simple, may not be doing it right. For, if you setup something wrong and it doesn't work so well or it seems to work o.k., one would think that's simple. Many plastic and foam floats are sold to people who think you just put something on that floats. Fishing is anything but that.

All of float fishing is a mathematic formula to set each float up right - you need to add "x" weight of shot to the float to get it to show you takes in the best way. Not enough shot will mean you will have a lot of bouyancy and this will mean resistance to the fish taking your bait, hook and line. 

Get the setup right and you can catch 50 fish in front of you. Get it wrong and you might catch 5. If you are able to get the setup right and in the right conditions you can catch 500 with the right tactics. I have seen it, practiced it and I am still working on it. I do know when I look at a float and it just isn't right. Once you have added the correct shot and have a good setup on your line, your float will be better than any fish detector, any underwater video and any lure. After you have fished a good setup and float, you can tell when the float is just not right.

Of course, not many people have fished using proper split shot to start with - and that is where their formula for success ends. It's simple.  Lindy still makes good shot - but that is about where it ends. Their floats are ok, but they have dumbed their offerings down and now specialize in clunky bobbers, foam and plastic chunks - built for profit - not fish-catching. Lindy (old Thill) modified their balsa line and they have removed some components essential for fishing finnesse situations such as cold water, cold front and Spring fishing, post or pre-spawn conditions where fish just aren't in the eating mood. This too is a mathematic equation as to the distance their gills open and the speed, power at which the bait moves towards their mouth -note I did not say into their mouth.

It is my belief that single fish feeding never trigger a float to move at all - or seldom do on their first attempt. Fish are such subtle feeders that they can sip a single worm from above single grains of sand and their feeding allows only the lighter worm to travel up to their mouth, leaving the sand.

Since a grain of sand is heavy in their world - take another look at your split shot and your float setup. If you can figure out how to get 99.99999% of that (I am exaggerating) out under water - non-bouyant you can increase your catch 10x over. In getting more indications of takes and fewer ejections you will have many more shots at catching (and releasing) trophy fish.

I am going to blog my fishing this year to see how many fish I can catch. With some more sunlight (more each day now) and some warm spells, I will have a chance at some cold water fishing. Water is around 35 degrees by me. I will tough it out and try to get out more times between now and March than I ever have because I want to set the bar very high. As I do, I think then fishing fans will take some notice.

Of all float fishing - slip float fishing is where the worst information exists for the angler and where the most errors in their setups exist. I see many anglers near me fish the slip float in just 2' or 4' of water. Slip floats are not necessary there. A fixed float would be much more deadly and catch many more fish - faster.

One thing many don't know about float fishing is that it should be done with a longer spinning rod to cast properly. Another math formula - the longer the rod, the softer you can cast your bait using that leverage. Softer casts mean far less damage on your bait and they allow you more accuracy, better touch and control.

Switch your slip knot stops to mono - same size as on the main spinning line. Use a small bead to stop the float line at the knot. When you make your slip knot - leave a tail of about 3 - 4". Leaving these long will allow them to lie down. If you trim them tight - they will be stiff bristles and you will hear them stopping your cast. You will know when you have it right. With the mono line stop knot - use two of them so that your perfect depth stays perfect and so your knot doesn't move unless you move it one at a time.

Comment by Leo Nguyen on January 8, 2012 at 7:24pm

Hm..something new to learn every day. The slip bobber gurus I've took notes from always like to add a bit of weight to the leader if the total leader weight is not enough to pull the rig down through the bobber's balsa (hollow) body. That's why I use a small split shot at the 14" marker above the hook to make the bobber stands up if I'm not using a 1/16oz jig head. Otherwise, a light leader total weight to create that slow sinking presentation will cause that pencil bobber to lay sideway, with the leader set at a minimal length of 12 in. The bobber stop, since I go cheap, is stopped by a braid line type rather than the official bobber stopper line material, which is larger diameter and waxier material. If I go into a lazy mode, I just loop the line through the small 4mm bead twice and it create a instant bobber stop..max length that can be done is based on your rod's length..average is 60 in. I guess that's my old school habits..but I am willi/ to learn new tricks and info. Have more?

Comment by Johnny wilkins on January 8, 2012 at 6:39pm

This is slip floating so we should be talking sliders or slip floats. If your float lays flat this means your split shot is on the bottom or the bait has been intercepted on the drop. Floats laying on their side is an old style of fishing that persists today - but it is not the most sensitive way to pick up a bite of a fish like a bluegill. In the early 1900s and before, bobbers had a small brass weight that attached to the line at the base of the float. This weight balanced the float ball on the line and created a pivot point at the balsa body which allowed the float to tilt quite easily. 

You can see in this example some of the last examples of this float. The key being that brass tip and the round body of this float which would rotate on the water.

Laying any float on its side will create more resistance and will not show the initial takes of the fish. This might work in your favor if you are trying to fish around smaller fish or if you just want to relax. Laying the float on the side is also bad in any type of current or wind.

The way a slip float should work is the line slides through until it reaches depth. Once at depth you should see the float stand up and then sink down into its final position in the water. The final movement should be the last split shot cocking the float tip just above the water's surface.

I also don't suggest split shot on the leader itself because the leader should be the thin part of your fishing rig which you don't want to damage when putting the shot on.

Comment by Leo Nguyen on January 8, 2012 at 6:11pm

Don't use the round ones too often. Use the pencil type, which is a long skinny looking float. You can have it lay flat after casting, and when it stands up, it's an indicator of a hookset during cold months. If you like the bobber to stand, you can also make that happen with a bit more weight on the leader for the summer months when they strike violently. On calm water, that pencil bobber will dance like a mad man on drugs.

Comment by Dwayne Denison on January 8, 2012 at 5:23pm

Thanks Leo, I have always wondered about using round slip floats. Seems how line runs and using bead would cause more resistance on bobber

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