Natural Glue for Live Baits, BBG Brand

[Leo Nguyen]

Updated on (3/12/12): Terminology correction and new recipes for experimentation, procedure updates, and baits underwater time frame using with the glue.

 

As promised, the recipe for ultra sticky glue, natural, excretable by fish, hold onto live wiggling bait up to 1/2oz, and heading towards 1 full oz as the final product get refined without the impurities (solid plant matters). I will post photos of the various final products.

 

** READ ALL DIRECTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING **

 

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RECIPE - BASED ON 1 OZ

 

1.  Pine rosin/sap (can be purchased online in small or huge quantity, based on purity, in which is the original raw materials remained as it was when harvested, or filtered of all the plant's dead solids).

 

** You can head to eBay and type in "Fresh pine resin" and the company by the name of Death Industries will sell you a nice recently harvested 1lb of Ponderosa pine rosin/sap for about $17, free shipping. That's about $1.10 per oz. Best deal yet. There are other sites that will sell  you similar  or more refined copal/rosin for $1.50 or more per oz on the cheap stuff. Basic rosin, not amber, is more than enough for our purpose. No need for the high end stuff **

 

2.  For every 1oz of rosin, we will use 1/2 size ratio of vegetable oil. Liquid volume is different slightly different from solid volume. So, 1 part rosin, 1/2 part oil. Better yet, olive oil. I'm trying with other types of oil to increase attractant ability by the rosin in the water, and will update this more along the way.

 

3.  A ceramic mug or a wide mouth metallic container of some type. You can reuse it later as you wish, but the rosin will destroy the container from its original intended purposes. You love one may kill you if you use it for rosin melting. Be warned. Get a container large enough to accommodate your volume base of mixing.

 

4.  A mixing container, made of ceramic or glass which can be used over a heat source.

 

5.  A reusable coffee filter/strainer that use a metallic mesh rather than the paper type. Make sure the mesh is ultra fine (100 micron). This will help you to remove the plant's solid matters, giving you a purer rosin sample (it will derived into Brewer's Pitch once the turpenes are completely burned off from the rosin).

 

6.  A very well ventilated area. The inside of the house may smell great, but your lungs may not be thanking you for the first day or two due to high concentration of turpenoids/turpenes from the vapors irritating the crap out of you. Thus, high ventilation area. Low level, no problem.

 

7.  A thermal tempered glass container for your final product to bring with you. Maybe the old powerbait jar from Berkley?

 

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SAFETY FIRST

 

CRITICAL: DO NOT BREATH THE FUME DURING BOILING PROCESS OF PURE ROSIN/SAP! DO NOT EAT THE ROSIN NO MATTER HOW REFINED IT IS.

 

It's safe to eat, yes, but 10g a day. However, each person's body react differently. You may go into shock or suffer death with just 1g. Best not to take any chance.

 

1. Wear nitrile gloves to prevent stickiness from adhering to your skin. Can cause grief since your hands will be sticky for days. If your hands happen to be in that scenario, use mineral spirit or minimal 40% alcohol. The rosin/sap will melt right off. Wash under warm water, not cold, with soap to remove the remaining residual. OR, when the rosin seem to dry off a bit, use a pumice stone to rub the remaining resin/sap off when your hands are dry.

 

2. Use NIOSH respirator (common respirator from Home Depot or Lowes with the two filters on both sides) when refining the sap in large quantity, anything greater than 1/2lb. If your lungs can easily be irritated, or do have asthma, PLEASE, use the respirator. Better yet, have one of us do it for you. I have no problem in making a batch for you since I have all the safety equipment at the ready.

 

3. Use a light pair of safety glasses. I'm a four-eyes, so, I'm always safe from accidental splashing. However, a safety glass will give you greater protection due to higher shielding from all directions.

 

MAKING LARGE BATCHES

* If and when you're going to make huge batches, please, do not expose the content to an exposed flame, especially the fume. It will ignite into an inferno! Buy a used electric kettle, cook the rosin/sap at low tempt and only load it half way up to prevent boiling over.

 

* Have a fire extinguisher handy. Use the extinguisher designed for kitchen fire, having the ability to deal with oil fire.

 

* STAY AWAY FROM THE FUME! Always use a respirator, and in a very large well ventilated area. It's good to die for your causes, but making glue for your fishing hobby..not a good idea.

 

PURCHASING THE RIGHT MATERIALS

* I've got the info from the manufacturers over in India, as well as local sellers in the states which obtained the raw materials world wide, the copal/resin/rosin/amber they sell are refined with fillers for incense purposes. In other words, the rosin materials range between 5% to as high as 50%. The rest, pure incense fillers to prevent allergic reactions during large volume usages. Using it for glue purpose, not a good idea unless the rosin/sap is 100% RAW.

 

* I'll be buying bulk materials to make for my families and friends. Looks like the deal got sweeter if you mention that you're from Big BlueGill to the seller on eBay. I believe the Death Industries company is willing to give a 5% discount on bulk purchase. 5lbs or 10lbs with 5% discount. Since I'm cheap, I'm happy. *LOL* I wish I can get that from Berkley, PowerPro, PLine, and other company's items since I spend tons of money at Bass Pro. Oh well.

 

COOKING METHODS

 

** Make sure not to put your head over the vapors giving off during the cooking and filtering process (you cook outside is highly recommended). You will pass out if too much turpenoids/turpenes get into  your lungs. **

 

1. When you heat up the rosin, do not place it on high flame. Heat the cooking container at medium flame for a minute or two to get the temperature up in the container. Slow it down to very low fire once the container is adequately heated up.
2. Toss in about 1oz of raw resin to produce 3/4oz of the filtered product (or less if you have too much debris from raw sample).
3. Start with 1/4 part of cooking vegetable oil by pouring it over the rosin. Allow the rosin to melt completely into a liquid as it infused with the oil. Stir the melting rosin every minute or so, for a good 20 seconds, to encourage equal heat distribution to full melt the rosin from all the plant's dead matter. By adding oil into the raw rosin with debris, the soil will get infused easily due to the bubbling effect caused by the aeration of the debris.
4. Once the rosin and oil fully infused, pour the solution through the coffee filter mesh (or a very fine mesh strainer) to extract all the larger solid undesirable matters. Let the solution cool down. As it cools, you'll notice the solution will not turn back to a solid, brittle, clearer rosin/sap. Rather, it remain tactile, malleable, and extremely sticky. Once it's fully cooled down to room temperature, you can dip the hook of your choice into it. Make sure the hook has enough of the rosin to hold onto the amount of live baits that you want to put on the hook. If everything seem good to your liking, give the resin until the next day to cool down in the open air to see if you need to add more oil into the solution.

 

When the rosin is too hard to handle, bring the rosin solution from the mixing container back up to a liquid state. Add in another 1/8 part of oil into the melted solution, and stir well as it start to boil. Turn the fire off. Let it cool back down. Do the same thing with the cooling process in #4 above.

 

When the rosin solution reach its malleable state, but remain sticky, you're set. If not, add the remain 1/8 part oil in the next melt down. All you need is 1/2 part of oil to 1 part of rosin, MAX. Too much and you'll have a mess on your hand as you use it. Always start at low quantity with the oil before adding more.

 

Ambient water temperature formulation

* This is the compiled the data thus this far based on my own water temperature testing, and reports from users. The hotter the air and water, the thicker the rosin required to be (less oil is needed). The colder the air and water temperature, the more malleable the rosin is needed (a lot more oil is required).

 

[Water ambient temperature]

80° to 95°: 1 part rosin, 1/16 part oil

65° to 79°: 1 part rosin, 1/8 part oil

55° to 64°: 1 part rosin, 1/4 part oil

40° to 54°: 1 part rosin, 1/3 part oil

25° to 39°: 1 part rosin, start at 1/3 part oil, and slowly mix up towards 1/2 part.

less than 25°: 1 part rosin, and straight to 1/2 part oil. You may need more towards 2/3 part oil.

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HOW TO USE THE ROSIN

There are various method to use the rosin, but, here’s mine:

1. It’s tend to be easier just to dip the entire hook into the jar, but, I use a small wood stick, such as a wood skewer stick for light BBQ, or anything that you can find laying around the house, swap a half or a whole pea size amount, strategically place the rosin on the shank/valley of the #4 to #8 hook. If you’re planning on use a nightcrawler, I would say dip it in the jar and get a nice gob of it. Read the direction for the nightcrawler later in the instruction.

2. If the rosin is still a tad hard due to the cooler storage area or because of the hot environment formulation, either place it in direct sunlight for half hour, or keep it close to your body to use your body temperature to melt it.

3. Once the rosin is dipped into the water, the rosin will cool down to a more tacky, less sticky rosin, but still hold strong to the existing live baits due to the bonding sites. Once you heat it up, it can be reused once again. Use the lighter, place the rosin on the hook slowly to the fire, and it will melt very quickly within 1 to 2 seconds. That’s all you need. Cool it down just by blowing on it once. It’s now cool enough to stick live baits onto the rosin without killing them.

The rosin is safe for the fish to swallow. Think of it as gum. It’s indigestible, easily bind with dirt and vegetation, and secrete out very easily.

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LIVE BAITS

Crickets: I noticed that a cricket only needs the hook to have a small amount to completely hold it without the hook coming off. Less than 1/8 of a pea size. You may need more based on the water you’re at. Stick the hook on the top of the cricket, with the sharp edge slightly protrude out from the body to one side, if you want it to wiggle at the top of the water, and a quick self-hookset (especially with a #8 and #10 circle hooks) with the fish tries to swim away. Gently place the bait with hook into the water, without any weight beside the hook and line. This is where I notice the braid line comes in very handy. Light test pound mono will do just fine. Put it on the bottom of the thorax if you want the instant hookset the second the fish grab hold of the cricket.

Waxies and mealworms: due to their dry bodies, a 1/4 pea size rosin the hook's shank or in the middle of the gap's valley will be sufficient to hold the two of the worms in place. You need to experiment how much you need for your own hook sizes. I was able to put 6 wax worms, or 4 mealworms on the size #6 hook when I cover the hook's body and gap with the rosin. The most effective way is to place waxies, one along the shank of the hook to cover the hook’s body, and one near the valley to entice the fish to wiggle in order to trigger the immediate response. For mealworms, place the head along the shank of the body, and let the half of the body dangling off the hook. The mealworm’s tail is the most active part of the body.

Earthworms: I can slap on 2 red wigglies or 1 full nightcrawler onto the hook, dangling in the gap of the hook, entangled within the rosin. Make sure to rinse the worm's slime coating on their body off first by dipping them into the water, stir them around a tad, dry them off on a paper towel/your clothe, and stick them onto the hook with the rosin. Stick very well. If your entire hook's gap is full of rosin, the earthworms will have a hard time getting loose. It's like bubblegum in your hair. If you hook the earthworm correctly using a regular method via the tail end, the rosin is not even needed. They will survive a good hour, and I actually noted a few African crawlers survived up to 4 hours.

Maggots: 1/2 pea size rosin on the hook can hold up as many as 6 maggots. I cover the entire #6 circle hook, and there are more than 12 of the maggots on there. They will not come off no matter how much I try to shake in the water.

Insects and bugs: Cover the hook with the rosin, add a bit of sugar/honey, and you'll find yourself a hook full of flies in no time. Stick the hook down an ant's hill, or on an ant's path, and get ready for major actions. This stuff is sticky! Not to be cruel, but, one of the family members created multiple leaders, hooks and swivels hung on a rack. He dipped the hooks down on the ants and termite hills, hauled up hooks loaded with the live baits, and went to town with them at the nearby lakes.

 

Live baits underwater experiments:

 

Live baits getting impaled will die within 30 seconds as they hit the water. Water pressure based on depths and volume will intrude into their compromised body, and kill them, beside from the damaged organs they received from the hooks. Here is the compiled list of live baits and underwater experiment:

 

Tony's submission

Used pond water, allowed to acclimate in the house overnight to match 68 degrees tempt, at 538' elevation.

 

• Beemoth (waxworm): Sacrifice #1: 6 min, 35 seconds. Sacrifice #2: 6 min. Sacrifice #3: 7 min, 15 seconds.

B. Waldman's submission

Deinozied water at room temp.

• Beet armyworm larvae (Spodoptera): A set of 5 larvae, each approx 70 mg. and approaching 3/4-inch long. Larvae were submerged and then timed. I started pulling the first larvae out of the water at the 8 minute mark, then in 2 minute increments after that. As such, I got data points for the 8, 10, 12, 14 and 16 minute time periods.

   

  First observation was that all larvae struggled like crazy when initially dropped into the water, but all such activity ceased within 30-40 seconds. After that, larvae appeared to go into a state of suspended animation, with only the occasional involuntary flex. I repeated this first step a second time on a different day, and again, excessive movement for only the first 40 seconds, then near paralysis. Wouldn't look too good on a hook, IMO - LOL. Hope you get bit in the first 30 seconds...

  Back to the data. After pulling each larvae out and setting them onto a paper towel in a designated and labeled spot, I observed for recovery or mortality. Interestingly, none of the larvae actually perished in this experiment, even after 16 minutes of submersion. Also interesting, recovery time was very consistent at about 2.1 - 2.2X submerged time. In other words, the larvae submerged for 8 minutes required about 18 minutes to fully recover and crawl off, while the larvae submerged for 16 minutes recovered and crawled off at about the 39 minute mark. No movement whatsoever until about 2-3 minutes before respective recovery timepoint.

• Cabbage looper (Trichoplusia): Based on the above beet armyworm results, time intervals were 12.5, 15, 17.5 and 20 minutes of submersion. Again, removal and recovery/observation on paper towel afterward,  and again, no mortality as all caterpillars recovered in about 2X the submersed time.

•  

  Another thing of note: cabbage looper have a high fat content, and so some of them originally floated on the waters surface until held down for a few seconds. When on the surface, activity was great as their must be some mechanism that keeps them struggling thinking they might escape their situation. All that sank immediately exhibited the near paralysis phenomena at about the 30-40 second time interval, something which I have now coined the "universal catepillar activity constant (UCAC)".   :-)

 

Lastly, caterpillars breathe through "spiracles" or tiny openings on the sides of their bodies. After a period of submersion, air bubbles frequently formed at the openings, and when doing so, actually made the caterpillar semi-buoyant, frequently rising partially off the bottom of the glass flask. 

Leo's submission

Water temp was 68°F, elevation at 860ft, with water pressure in the container roughly about 1psi:

• Crickets (any garden and woodland variety at any size): average at 43 seconds under water to precise.
• Ants (any variety, ranging from small carpenter to fire ants..not fun when stung): average at 6 minutes.
• Green beetle grubs: 35 minutes.
• Termites: 2 minutes
• Pill bugs: 45 minutes
• 1 green caterpillar (not sure from what species of butterfly): 17 minutes
• Red wigglers (compost variety): 36 minutes
• Red wigglers (earth/garden variety): 45 minutes
• Canadian nightcrawlers: 59 minutes
• Maggots: 24+ hours
• Waxworms: 7 minutes average (from alive to no activity)
• Mealworms: 5 minutes average (from alive to no activity)
• Mealworms pupae: 27 minutes average (from alive to no activities)
• Darkling beetles (mealworm's adult): 9 minutes average (from alive to no activities)
  

 

If anyone has more info, let me know!

 

Effectiveness of live baits in water

 

• I have yet to land anything due bad weathers and finicky fish during winter. Will update as soon as I hit the spawning ground.
• Federico (BBG member) confirmed it worked well.
• 3 others in FL (family and other forums' members) indicated it nailed fish quite well with local grubs and maggots.
• 6 in California's in the mountains' and valleys' lakes also indicate it's a hot item for carps, cats, and trouts using non-impaled worms (waxies and red wigglies) which lasted up to 2 hours on the same worms, yielding 4 catches per worm reported by users. WOW!
• 4 from Oregon reported they caught their trout and salmon faster than than they could with lures and flies.
• 2 from Washington caught finicky fish in eastern lakes better than the usual crankbaits and jigs with dead baits.

More and more reports are coming in. If you want me to use your names for representation, let me know. BBG bait glue is a hit! Truly am sorry Bait Stick, you have a competition.

 

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EXPERIMENTAL RECIPES

 

1. Attempting to use beewax, 1/3 to 1/2 portion of wax to 1 portion of rosin. It's the same method of using animal's or plant's fat/oil, but will bring the rosin to a more solid state, with low melting point.

 

2. Brewer's pitch: all turpenoids/turpenes boils out, removal of all impurities, and may add a bit of beewax/olive oil if it's not malleable at the very end. It suppose to have a nice malleable stickiness for various usages..hopefully, it will act as a better glue.

 

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REQUEST FOR PROCESSED ROSIN

 

Rosin sample request is more than welcome, since I'm purchasing more rosin on a regular basis to make for everyone. If you don't want to do it yourself, I'll be glad to do it for you, as I process the rosin according to temperature of your local areas' waters. Let me know the temperature of air and water that you've experienced in our local areas.

 

Final is focused just for shipping and material costs. No production cost involve. My way of saying, glad to be among you guys:

• Cost breakdown: $65 (discounted cost from our resin provider, Death Industries) per 5lb (80oz).
• 2-stage filtration recovery from 80oz at 75% to remove all impurities: 60oz (1oz purified = $1.08). However, I'm grabbing the $80/80oz pre-filtered resin cake rather than the raw with 1/4 of the mass being large impurities, so the cost will be a flat $1/oz. Cost saving, with less impurities, and close to no turpenes/turpenoids to worry about. Possibly still have about 10% impurities remained, but very minor. I will attempt to remove them using a 50 micron strainer mesh.
• Heat tempered glass container, 2oz (solid): $1.12 due to tax increase..Go state government!
• Shipping and handling USPS priority mail, via standard box, any where in the U.S.A: $5.35. The box will be able to house 3 containers. I can shove 4 containers in there, but that's pushing it without proper padding for shipment.

 

Total for priority mail:

1oz container: $7.47

2oz container: $8.47. If you want 2oz (1oz per container) in two different containers, $9.59.

 

Mix and match the shipping combinations the way you like. Just remember:

 

1oz of rosin: $1

1 container: $1.12

Shipping: $5.35 flat rate for 3 containers. 4 is pushing it.

 

Make sure to let me know a few things so I can formulate base on your needs:

1. Temperature of the water you're fishing from, or expecting the temperature to be. Once the resin hits the water, it will harden slightly. The base temp for the resin to be malleable to put on the hook is at 75°F.  When you dip your bait into the water, the rosin may harden up just a tad. Need a lighter, warm the rosin up within 1 to 2 seconds, cool it by blowing on it once, and stick another live baits on.
2. How many ounce you want. Remember, 1oz will go a LONG LONG WAY!

 

Take a look at the attached file. The 2oz containers are being sized with an average PC mouse for comparison.

 

 

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[JBplusThuy]

My three jars of Leo's Lunker Loogie arrived the other day,  I can't wait to try it out, and yes, I'm going to keep calling it that until he gives up and trademarks the name ;-)

[JBplusThuy]

And then he'll find a way to color it kind of a sickly yellow-green, to :)

[Leo Nguyen]

Already ahead of you ;) getting my hand on the bait dyes in green, yellow, and hot pink baby! LOL

[JBplusThuy]

Coloring like that could get you into the dough bait business, with products such as "Leo's Trout Loogie" and "Leo's Loogie Marshmallows" :-)

[Leo Nguyen]

LOL Oooohhh..I truly don't want to step into that territory. Those neck of the woods are fiercely occupied. If I must, I'll team up with the boys over at the pond management, and specialize on foods customization, double up with genetic sorting and geotechnical evaluation for their ponds. A field that truly bring out the insane scientist in me.

[dick tabbert]

Insane is good but knowledge is better so what if one has to motivate the other. 

[David, aka, "McScruff"]

Wow Leo - you may have secured your fortune with this stuff. Certainly the amount of work is impressive.

[Leo Nguyen]

Nah, this is a catalyst for others to use to their hearts content. I'm just having fun doing experimentation. It's like a new window in creating a bizarre fishing tools.

[Tony Livingston]

Leo this is pretty cool, I've enjoyed the analytical approach you brought to the product. Very nicely done sir!

[Leo Nguyen]

Thanks Tony. I'm already utilizing the rosin's diluted property, after slow boiling, to create natural binding agent, and promote non-scattering of the fish pellets as they sit in the water. So far, it's working in a strange way. Still have to field test it at the BOW during the spawning season.

[David, aka, "McScruff"]

Hey leo... How do I order some Deep South Leo Loogie?