A Silent Stinger Frisbee.......

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Comment by David, aka, "McScruff" on October 19, 2013 at 7:22pm

Tony, did you see the article on fish and their perception of food?

(thanks to Midcurrent.com)

http://midcurrent.com/flies/not-vision-perception/

Comment by David, aka, "McScruff" on October 19, 2013 at 7:19pm

It is probably to our benefit that bluegill are usually shallow water fish. This means that all the lurid jig colors, legs, goggle eyes and so on are probably detected to some degree. The colors may not be seen as absolute hues, but certainly contrasts are recognized. This can serve to draw in the fish, where they find that yummy bit of worm, grub or minnow waiting. Would they bite the jig, by itself? Maybe.

Its why I usually bring worms.

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 7:10pm

Thanks Dick....and Mike, Allen, David, and Tooty as well. I'm glad that others are intrigued as well.

For me, I suppose the Holy Grail of BG jigs would be one that would take BG a lot (most??) of the time, in waters across the country, untipped.....to me, that would signify a design that embodied only the elements needed to take fish. Question is, would such a design need the afore-mentioned wings, flash, legs, hackle, and tail...or the extra work on the part of the designer who was creating it?

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 6:59pm

Well I certainly don't want to irritate anyone. My reason for asking is one of simple curiosity, coupled with a desire to better understand what it takes to provoke a strike from my favorite fish. As I've stated, there are many fine tyers on this site, and they turn out some amazing creations....far beyond my abilities.

But what if....all the attention to detail comes down to simply size, (relating to fall rate), and color.....matching the hatch, or making the jig lifelike, being not as important? Certainly there is no such thing as a guaranteed jig...one that will produce all the time, everytime. At least I don't believe there is. But is it possible to reduce the jig down to it's barest components, and discover just what it is that accounts for it's fish catching abilities?

I'm wondering if it's time for a test.....a select few of the most popular fish catching jigs from this site.....tested by different anglers, across the country, on different waters. Fished tipped, and naked, according to the tyers instructions, and free-lanced by the anglers also.

Could we arrive at a basic, simple,  stripped down answer to the question of jig design ,and/or color, tipped or untipped, for BG taking abilities for the majority of time and places?

Comment by dick tabbert on October 19, 2013 at 6:57pm

Good one Tony. I guess we are talking about jigs and not flies. FLIES: here is my take on flies, closely resemble as mush possible as a bug in its natural surroundings and the more it resembles say match the hatch with something the fish eats and likes the better the chances of success for the fly fisherman. I don't know of any fly fisherman that use scents but guess it could be done so we try to imitate there food source as closely as we can and when we catch that fish on that fly we have tied or bought we have some feeling of accomplishment/success. JIGS: as a general rule I'll go to say a jig tipped with a bait of some sort will out fish a jig fished without by far. I think there are things that can help a undressed jig. Weight I have good luck with small baits something you can through into the water column and it floats down slow and natural looking most of the time it will be hit on the fall. Colors to me we all have our favorites. Mine being white pearl mixed with chartreuse or red and Jeffrey favorite go to along with LedHed the color pink. I most always fish 2 or 3 colors on one jig not saying one color won't work but more color I feel increase your chance to get bit especially dingy or off colored water. Rule of thumb the more dingy or murky the water the darker the bait. Now we come to eyes. I think the biggest part of a jig is the eyes and most fish key off on the eyes so I'll glue on some holographic eyes they look so life like it makes the bait come to life. The final thing I'll do is add some light reflecting strips Polar flash or something along them lines this is added to get the fishes attention it helps to see the jig from a distance. Tony I don't tip my jigs with live bait but once and awhile if things are slow I will tip with Gulp Wax Worms. This will entice the fish with another sense his sense of smell but I really rarely use them I'm hoping that I have that perfect jig and over the years have caught so many fish I think It has proven itself to me over and over. This is my on the subject hope it sparks your interest.

Comment by Allen Morgan on October 19, 2013 at 5:38pm

Tony, that's a really good question!  I might have to try that, just to see if it's the color, or the live bait.

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 5:28pm

I wish I was more knowledgeable about tying, and could converse on a level equal to you guys, but the best I can do is offer up visualizations....soooo

 Here's my question: (to anybody who ties)

What if, you were to select a plain jighead, of the exact same variety that you would use to construct a full fledged bug. But instead of adding hackle, tails, wings, legs, eyes, or antennae.......you simply grabbed some yarn, (or proper thread...see, I don't know how this works!) of the same color as has proven effective for you before, and wrapped up a simple ,plain, round body, snipped it off, dabbed the loose end with super glue, added a grass shrimp or cricket, and headed to the water.

Would you catch just as many BG on this hacked up "bug"?? and if you did, what would that tell you?

That's my big question. What does a BG want to see? legs? eyes? wings? that take time to create, or just a splash of color? How focused are they, when there's live protein tipped on the hook? Is it just color that's needed?

Now fishing the jig naked.....that's another story in my book.

 

 

 

 

Comment by Allen Morgan on October 19, 2013 at 5:21pm

#5 is probably the hardest to do correctly.

Like most folks that fly-fish for 'gills, I like the appeal of peacock herl.  Unfortunately, as we all know, herl isn't the strongest of materials.  Heck, I've had the stuff break on when I'm tying the fly, much less survive a few fish.

Learning how to protect fragile materials is a must.  And, there are usually lots of different ways to do this.

Of course, lately, I've thought about just foregoing the herl completely, and switching over to peacock-colored chenille.....

Comment by David, aka, "McScruff" on October 19, 2013 at 5:08pm

I have to weight in on the side of technique when tying flies. Even at my level of, "Hackled Nimrod," I prefer a fly a fly fulfills several functions, in this order:
1. Able to withstand the rigors of casting.
2. Looks like something alive, to a convincing degree.
3. Sized correctly for the quarry.
4. Appeal to multiple species
5. Able to survive multiple catches.
For these things to be met, proper technique has to observed. Inevitably, this leads to some level of craftsmanship.
It's like building a house; there are many ways to assemble the parts. But only the right techniques will yield a robust structure that withstands the test of time.
Eventually, tying flies becomes art and that leads to attention to detail. Getting THERE can only benefit the other aspects of angling.

Comment by dick tabbert on October 19, 2013 at 4:31pm

What a platter size gill great job Jeffrey.

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