any suggestions on improvements

[cal okeefe]

hey there any input would be helpful.. i fish a piece of land that is about 350 acres.. the biggest lake is 27 acres.. the others are small 2 or 3 acre ponds.. the bass fishing is real good and you catch all different size bass.. the channel cat fishing is awesome, crappie fishing is top notch.. the bluegills are hit and miss.. alot of 4 or 6 in bluegills that you catch.. we do catch some slabs but it seems like there is alot more smaller gills then larger.. now i thought about adding some pike or muskie or something like that but i dont want to make any dumb moves .. any suggestions

[David, aka, "McScruff"]

Bass are primary predators of bluegill - if you have 'em, you got what you need from that end.

Crappie are competitors, and fry stealers.

From what little I know of such things, I'm guessing you are actually near balanced for the size waters you are talking about.

[cal okeefe]

thanks david..

[Walt Foreman]

You don't want balance if you're trying to create a trophy bluegill fishery.  The fact that there are bass of all sizes, combined with the fact there are a lot of smaller bluegills, means the lake could use additional predators.  Those could be more bass, or they could also be walleye, or pike or muskie.  What you want is a lake in which very few bluegill survive the predator gauntlet to adulthood; in lakes such as this bluegill grow many times faster than they do in less ideal circumstances, sometimes 8" or more in one year in the South.  One surefire way to do this is to create an extremely high density of young bass, either through supplemental stocking of bass at least 6" so they're less likely to be eaten, or simply through implementing a catch-and-release-only policy on bass.  Stocking muskie or pike can sometimes have the added benefit of producing much larger bluegill, without sacrificing bass size.  I've done this several times myself in ponds I've managed, including most recently in a one-acre pond that was as morbidly overpopulated with bluegill in April of 2009, when I started working with it, as any pond I've ever seen.  The bluegill averaged two inches in that pond then - I have photos I took with the fish laid by a float, and the float's sizably bigger than they are.  Now the 'gills in that pond average 8", and I expect to catch several in the pound class next spring. 

 

If I understand correctly that you have permission to work with the lakes, I would suggest stocking two to three 12-14" pike or muskie per acre.  Don't stock fingerlings because they'll get eaten.

 

Another thing you can do to grow trophy bluegill is to feed them.  If you live close by you can feed them by hand; the best way though is with an automatic feeder, because that way they get fed every day, rain or shine, and you can set the feeder to feed several times a day during peak growing season in the summer.  I sell automatic feeders, and there are also a couple other members on here who have pond management companies and sell them as well.  Feeding is the single best thing you can do to create trophy bluegill, though getting the small ones thinned out is just as important (when there are too many mouths to feed, even pellets are spread too thinly).

 

Lastly, a lot of research has been done in the past ten years that demonstrates that smaller gills can sometimes just be a result of overfishing, both due to the fish not being allowed time to grow large, and through deterioration of genetics through the "sneaker male" phenomenon.  The best way to counter this is to implement a minimum length limit policy, say 8", and a very low creel limit such as three or five gills per day.  You might also consider making the limit a slot limit, say perhaps 7-9", so that no fish over 9" can be kept, thereby hopefully allowing more of the big ones to remain in the lake and get truly big.

 

 

[Tony Livingston]

If it were me, I think I would be tempted to take a couple of the smaller ponds and turn them into dedicated bluegill fisheries, by practicing the three cardinal rules to growing big bluegill:

1) Maintain an abundance of smaller Bass. Remove any Bass over 14".

2) Initiate a feeding program, using a high quality feed that utilizes fish meal as it's primary protein source.

3) Remove all female bluegill you catch, and return the largest size class of males to the water. Their dominant size will cause the remaining males to delay maturity, which enables them to grow even bigger.

 

[Bruce Condello]

Wow, great advice from everybody!

[David, aka, "McScruff"]

You got that right - holy crap... what an education!

Makes me wish I had some ponds of my own....

 

[cal okeefe]

ya definetly ..great info.. yes i have the run of the place.. no one hardly fishes out there thats part of the problem.. i fish it every weekend along with some of my family but thats only 4 of us.. we throw all the dinks on shore.. so my plan now is too start to add predators.. i will take your advice and add some northerns this should help us thin all the dinks out.. we have a fish feeder but it got blown into the lake last year off the dock so we still need to get it fixed.

now will these northerns become a problem in the future .. should i try to get all males if this is possible or any suggestions

[Tony Livingston]

Northerns, as well as muskies, will definitely eat BG, however as they grow they might develop a taste for your bass. Look at it this way, muskies and pike are long slender fish... what makes a good meal for this critter? A smaller, long slender fish, like a juvenile bass. The fusiform shape of a bass might well be preferable over the taller, blockier BG.

If you still go this route, and are concerned with possible reproduction of the pike, check into adding some tiger muskies instead... no worries about reproduction with those.

Remember also that any given body of water will only support so much biomass... adding fish will strain the carrying capacity of the pond, possibly leading to other problems down the road.

Have you thought about fish traps, or a fyke net to remove those smaller BG? Also, get that feeder up and running for next Spring. That's the number one thing needed to grow big BG. In one of your pics I saw Hybrid BG... are their native BG in these ponds also, or do you catch hybrids? Those two fish have different management strategies.

[cal okeefe]

thanks.. ya theres hybrids and regular  bg in there plus red ear

also i will prob go with a tiger muskie then so i dont have to worry about reproduction

[Walt Foreman]

Tiger muskie work great - they're what I stocked two years ago in the pond I mentioned above.  They will definitely eat young bass, along with scads of small bluegill; the fact they eat small bass is why they make it possible to have both large bluegill and large bass.  If you manage for big bluegill through high numbers of bass, the bass will stunt and stop growing altogether.  Stocking an esox avoids this. 

 

Tony's advice to remove the females is good - that will further reduce bluegill reproduction.  Although I would personally modify that plan slightly to release big females, as in ones 9" or better, if they're very healthy (small head compared to the body, thick, etc.).  I've seen some really big female bluegill over the years; my personal best to date was a female, as was my second-largest.  But I do remove most females, and it makes a difference I think. 

One advantage to northerns over muskie is you can get them for about half the price. Zetts out of WV and PA sells 12-14" northerns at a great price.  They ship by air freight, and I've never had a fish arrive dead.  A good source for tiger muskie is Trophy Gamefish out of MN.  If they happen to be headed your way they'll deliver to you.

 

[Tony Livingston]

Since you have both types of BG present, what you may notice as the years go by is that you are catching fewer and fewer hybrids. It would depend on the numbers of both fishes present, (native BG vs. HBG), but in a lot of cases the HBG gradually disappear unless their numbers are replenished from time to time. They are not generally considered, or desired, to be self-sustaining.

Managing for  big Bass, or big Bluegill, by themselves is typically not all that hard. It's when you want BOTH, in the same BOW, that things get complicated. That scenario usually works best in a larger pond or lake. The 27 acre lake you spoke of would be your best bet there. That's why I think you should pick a couple of the smaller BOW, and dedicate them to managing for trophy BG. Much simpler, less intensive on your part, and quicker results.

Walt's advice on releasing the exceptional female BG strikes close to home for me. I always cull females, but this past summer my youngest caught a 15.5 oz. female native BG, and we released it. The body dynamics were so superb that I couldn't bring myself to cull her.

[steve kooyers]

sounds like nirvana. I envy you! Meanwhile, if I were you, i wouldn't disturb anything. good fishing spots are hard to come by.