A Silent Stinger Frisbee.......

Comment

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 8:46pm

So the only difference is the sink rate?

Comment by DAVID L EITUTIS on October 19, 2013 at 8:45pm

I think they weigh less than a 1ooth of an ounce TOny

Comment by DAVID L EITUTIS on October 19, 2013 at 8:45pm

NO NO MASTER TONY MY STUFF IS NOT JIGS . I use hollow metal beads to control the sink rate to about a foot every 10 seconds............

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 8:43pm

Oh I won't wait till spring, Tooty.....I fish jigs year-round!

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 8:39pm

Tooty help me out....I would've thought a silent stinger was a jig.....are you saying it's not, and if so can you tell me the difference? Like I said, I know next to nothing about this fly/bug stuff.

Comment by DAVID L EITUTIS on October 19, 2013 at 8:34pm

GOOD REPLY DAVID and never even considered light penetration !!!!!!!!! After 30 some years of experimenting with my stuff , Sir Jeffrey and pink, are the only new twists to the problem. I just use the same colors for the last 30 years and won't change much, especially since I've become a pond bum. If you are catching fish why change unless you just want to test stuff that day.....Though SIr Jeffrey likes bigger stuff that's ok by me cause who can argue with his success ........................

Comment by David, aka, "McScruff" on October 19, 2013 at 8:30pm

How far can this go, regarding a tipped jig? How much of that jig do we really need? Would a selection of plain jigheads, consisting of a simple COLORED hook and a lead head, be enough to tempt a wary fish into investigating closer, whereupon the live bait tipped on the hook takes over and entices the fish into striking/tasting?

Or does it need a hand tied body, or eyes, to become effective? Is there an average "minimum" material required?

A basic colored hook tempt wary fish? I doubt it.

The one element we are assuming as constant here is light penetration. You can dress up a jig like a Christmas pig if you want, but it the water is deep or murky... all that color is lost. Most research I've ever seen is inconclusive - at best - as to whether color makes an ABSOLUTE difference in a fishes decision to bite.

Bluegill, in particular, are middle of the road in color perception. They see best those colors in the wavelengths associated with black, brown, greens and reds (and possibly yellows). There is also some overlap, and they can detect variations within these colors. Again, this is not to say these colors are irresistible to bluegill and will reliably cause them to bite. It is just that they register them.

As basic minimum, I think a body and eyes meet the minimum. Add a tail, legs and other elements that say "alive" and you may manage to entice the bluegill into APPROACHING the jig. That is probably its highest purpose, in and of itself. If they are competitive, or in hunger mode (after the spawn, for example) they are probably tempted to strike the jig. But plunk down that same un-tipped jig in the bountiful summer waters around here and, well.... you might wait a good while for anything to happen.

As popular as they are, I remain unconvinced that the jig itself - no matter how you dress it up - is the deciding factor where live bait is used with it.

Comment by DAVID L EITUTIS on October 19, 2013 at 8:21pm

HEY TONY IF YA DON'T MIND, THIS BLOG COULD GO ON FOREVER !!!!!!!!  TONY IF everyone you talk to is speaking about Jig's Mr. Gronaw is the guy to ask , and I personally would value his input . NOW IF YOU ARE SPEAKING OF UNWEIGHTED FLYS there are many tiers on here with opinions. Untipped or tipped jigs or flys for that matter are different of course. I have a definate opinion on that . In the last twenty or so years I have fished with my bugs tipped 2 times. As far as I can tell it makes no difference to gills , but crappie are a different story.

  But speaking of gills I see no difference and fish with out the aid of live bait. MMMMMMMMMMMMOST, BUT NOT ALL OF MY BUG GUYS, fish em untipped and I think it is just a personal preference thing . Now yup I"ve caught a few fish and done my own experiments on tipping or untipped . To me makes no difference , at least not enough to make me want to go out and get a bunch of waxy's or anything like that.

  Ya Ya I know Sir Jeffrey tips most everything with shrimp or something , but the real test as you say is naked. You may not believe  this Tony , but I"ve actually seen were tipping , especially waxy's costs ya bites . Yup take the waxy's off and start catching fish . GO FIGURE , but I"ve seen it with my own eyes buddy.

   Eyes in my opinion are cute , but that's all cause they generally fall off after a few cast's if you are catching fish and once they fall off then cast right back in without em an catch some more fish....

   I"m torn between fall rate and color as #1 thing of importance to me . Size is of little concern if you stay with in logical standards . The only reason Sir Jeffrey keeps wanting bigger stuff is because He likes to try and get everything to the boat that bites his bugs , be them Jim G's or Mine or whoevers' he's using that day. 

  Ya just can't compare jigs to flies in this regard , that's why I leave the jig tying to Jim and concentrate on my stuff and it's fall rate..

   I don't think there is a minimum amount of material required to make a Jig , in my opinion a little something is better than nothing when it comes to jigs. Easy enough to try , Catch one fish on a Jig with a little bit of body and one naked and see how long it takes a fish to bite the naked one ........ Tipping makes this experiment useless of course because of the addition of the scent of what ever ya dressed it with .
   Ya got an interesting blog going here Tony and now you'll think about it all winter till spring when ya can really experiment some with the different methods .............

Comment by Tony Livingston on October 19, 2013 at 7:42pm

Thanks David. And your results mirror my own thus far.

How far can this go, regarding a tipped jig? How much of that jig do we really need? Would a selection of plain jigheads, consisting of a simple COLORED hook and a lead head, be enough to tempt a wary fish into investigating closer, whereupon the live bail tipped on the hook takes over and entices the fish into striking/tasting? Or does it need a hand tied body, or eyes, to become effective? Is there an average "minimum" material required?

Again, untipped jigs I consider to be another matter entirely.

Comment by David, aka, "McScruff" on October 19, 2013 at 7:27pm

PS Ive tried you jig test, Tony, back when I thought they were the 'ne plus ultra.' While unscientific, my results were not in favor of the jig, by itself. I was disappointed.

I had hoped, as you that I could find a bait that would work reliably, everywhere and need no more attention than a pocket to keep it in. If nothing else, I found, adding live bait noticeably changed the fihses reaction to the jig. That, in itself, suggests the jig is only partly effective, part of the time.

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