Response to growing bluegill and red ear in Texas ponds with catfish

[Gary Burtle]

First, the combination of bluegill, redear and catfish may be a good start, but is not complete, if large bluegill is the target.

 

Possibley blue catfish will have some success controlling the reproduction of the bluegill.  However, channel catfish do not work as carnivores to control bluegill reproduction.  Even brood sized channels do not control them.  Actually, I have a pond of blue catfish brood stock (15 to 30 pouds) that use bluegills for forage, but do not really control reproduction.  In this fed pond, the bluegills do get up to about half a pound, but that is it, even after four years.

 

I suggest that you manage your bluegill/red ear more closely by stocking about 100 largemouth bass per acre, to eat the reproduction.

 

Check the literature out of Oklahoma and Missouri for information about bluegill and hybrid bream growth.  Some work since 2000 was done in Oklahoma and work is underway in Missouri on comparing growth rates. 

 

It is interesting that people have been working with bream as a food fish for over 40 years, but are not successful at comercializing food size bream production.  However, bluegill can be purchased from wild stocks in Canada, Lake Okechobee, Florida, or the Santee Cooper Reservoir, South Carolina.

 

Even the Georgia Giant has not taken off as it should have, if the growth potential were as advertised.  This fish is like many hybrid strains, the first generation must be carefully managed and nurtured to get good growth.  Exposure to any other sunfish results in yield-lowering reproduction.  Ken told me, may he rest in peace, that he did not like to see any natural water flowing into a GaGiant pond because that meant fish contamination and dilution of growth potential.

 

Recent work that shows how to grade the hybrid bream to increase the number of males in the stocking population is a help to limit reproduction.  Some observations indicate that over 70% of hybrids that are stocked as 35 to 40 gram fish will reach a quarter pound or more in weight in six to seven months.  Then a yield of about 500 pounds per acre would be probable and over 1,500 lb/acre might be possible.

 

The idea of "what size is eatin' size" should be pressured down to between one quarter and one third pound.  To try for 1/2 pound is very difficult and would take too long with the bluegill genetics we have now.

 

I would like to know which bluegill or hybrid bream hatcheries really control their spawning programs enough to assure that, 1.  they start with pure bluegill or green sunfish as parents, and 2.  they provide first generation hybrids or pure bluegill to the buyer.

 

Sunfish are so easy to integrate between species that a hatchery must be very careful to start with and keep their stocks pure.

 

 

[Bruce Condello]

I think there's some points here that warrant careful consideration. Your last two paragraphs present very interesting questions.

Personally I have dealt with dozens of hatcheries and suppliers. Some are amazingly good. Some are amazingly sloppy. I've seen at least ten different species in transport to my farm that were not requested.

Here's some of them.

1. Bullheads (too many times to count). If you are a fish supplier and you accidently introduce bullheads you should lose your license.

2. Green sunfish X Bluegill hybrids. As you alluded to , this can happen way too easily if you're not paying attention. I've seen these little tag-a-longs several times.

3. Golden Shiners. Not as many bad things can happen with these critters, but they often get "thrown in" with fathead minnows.

4. White bass. I've seen them included in hybrid stockings.

5. Bluegill. These often show up with redear sunfish shipments.

6. Green sunfish. These get included with many other fish. They're so ubiquitous that evidently they're quite hard to control.

Several other instances come to mind. You definitely need to have a "let the buyer beware" kind of attitude.

[Gary Burtle]

All good points for bream buyers to be aware of. I have been searching for pure bluegill stocks that have been on the hatchery for at least ten years AND have been selected for growth during that time.

[Bruce Condello]

Remember one other important factor, Gary.

Make certain that the sunfish that you purchase are selected for your climate as well.

Redear sunfish, for example, can be found all the way from central Illinois, down to Central Florida. I would always want to purchase one that came from a farm located in a similar climate. Redears and bluegill from Georgia would likely perform very poorly in South Dakota. This one factor is often overlooked.

[Magnolia Rick]

Thank for the input. I started with the 100bass and 400 hybird blue gills. The stocking was done the first of Sept. 3/4 acre pond. With the daily feed the bass are up to 8 to 9" now ( Stocked 3" finergling ) The gills are hard to tell. Those we have been able to catch are 5 to 6". I'm going to wait till after the spawning in March and see where I'm at. I too have found that not all hatcheries are interested in any thing but sale of fist.
The next bull gill stocking will NOT be the hybird. What was a little pond in the back yard is LOL getting work me a whole lot more then I had plan.
Gary we would like you to joint our pond group and keep adding your infor. We're getting great information to this group.
Thank
Magnolia Rick

[Gary Burtle]

400 hybrids in a 3/4 acre pond may be a bit light, but did you stock hybrids in Sept '09. To get the growth you mention between September and the first of February is very good, in my opinion. Usually bream, hybrids or bluegill, or the bluegill/red ear combination, are stocked at about 1,000 per acre if heavy bream fishing is the goal.

I assume you are feeding these bream. Since you sound discouraged, they must not be coming to feed in numbers you anticipated. When that happens, it usually means the fish were stressed when stocked, were sick, were in cold water, or were offspring of wild broodstock.

Sounds like you had a bad experience with the hatchery. I have tried several hatcheries for hybrids and find them all different in terms of the quality of hybrid. We need to spend more time checking them out, mainly by getting testimonials from past customers. Think about it like buying a car. Kick the tires at least and be present on delivery.

My rules for buying fish are: 1. Buy from the same riverbasin, if possible. If buying long distance, rules 2 to 6 are even more important. 2. Check with past customers. 3. Visit the hatchery or if distant, fully understand hatchery policies. 4. Inspect fish on the truck before release. 5. Temper the fish to the recieving water before release. 6. Buy for quality first, price second.