Reflections....A Perfect Coppernose Male

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Comment by Jeffrey D. Abney on January 27, 2016 at 9:43am

One of my favorite Coppernose photos.........with the gold head of the Gronaw River Critter................

Comment by carl hendrix on January 29, 2015 at 12:40pm

thanks Tony;; and yes sir  that was definitely a whopper!!  the kind I could only dream of catching!!    reason I asked about those Georiga giants;; some time ago some guys I know who have ponds;; stocked them there;; to get permission to fish them;;  no way!!  but seeing a few of them;;  makes you go-- awww man!!!

Comment by Tony Livingston on January 29, 2015 at 10:40am

That was a redear Carl. And it was a whopper!

Georgia Giants are the property of one fish hatchery, supposedly a proprietary blend of different lepomids. Many think they are no more than a simple BG x GSF cross, or just a run of the mill hybrid bluegill in other words. Some believe a redear influence is involved also. Ken Holyoak was the creator of this fish, and much has been written about his business practices, both good and bad. (Remember Hogzilla? Same guy!) Ken has passed away, but his operation apparently lives on.

I don't believe I will post a link to his busines, but a google search for "ken's fish farm" will get you there.

Caveat Emptor.

Comment by Andy is OptiMystic on January 29, 2015 at 10:26am

On this page:

http://www.thecrappiekiller.com/bigfish.html

there is a guy with a replica of a fish bigger; he looks super honest... ;^>

Comment by Andy is OptiMystic on January 29, 2015 at 10:23am

It's news to these guys:

http://wrec.igfa.org/WRecordsList.aspx?lc=AllTackle&cn=Bluegill

Comment by carl hendrix on January 29, 2015 at 10:19am

ok;; question for Walt; and Tony;;  if I  misread;;  wasn't a new world record bluegill  caught I think last year in Arizona?? I thought it went  just under 6 pounds over 19 inches around.  am I correct??          and another question for you two guys please..  many years ago; I use to read about a bluegill called the Georgia Giant.  suppose to be one of the biggest gills raised.  any information on it??   thanks!!

Comment by Tony Livingston on January 29, 2015 at 9:34am

Walt, I believe it's a case of only northern strain gills are located in northern latitudes...so you may be correct in saying that it's the geography that contributes to longer life, rather than the strain of fish themselves. In the end however, I think the result is the same...northern bluegills live longer than southern bluegills, on average.

As far as growth, I'm content to adopt a wait-and-see-attitude. I have PondBoss friends in Texas that are most definitely managing for big coppernose growth, and I'm hopeful one of them will post a two pounder this year. but I still stand by my earlier comment...if coppernose BG were in fact much superior to northern strain bluegills, then 2 pound plus fish should at least be common, if not the norm in many PB circles. We've all seen the photos of Bruce holding 2 lb plus northern strain fish caught from his own ponds in Nebraska, well outside the copper's survivability zone, and he's posted several of those. And the Indiana record BG went 3 lbs 4 ozs, and was a northern fish.

I'm not dismissing the coppernose as not having the potential for greatness, only that environment and food play key roles in producing big bluegills. And both strains are certainly capable of excelling when the conditions are right. Factor in that once-in-a-lifetime genetic propensity for larger than normal growth, which occurs in both strains, and you get individuals destined for greatness. Individuals...not populations. That's my current take on things.

Comment by DAVID L EITUTIS on January 29, 2015 at 9:29am

GGGEEZ TONY did a fabulous answer to my question and so I won't bother looking for them up here. He brought up an interesting point about where are all the 2 lb.+ Coppers hiding ? I would  think then the logical place for em to grow big is out west in Led Hed territory. I wonder if the giant Red Ears at Havasu push the Coppers out because I would think the water should be close to the same for California and Arizona.......

Comment by Walt Foreman on January 29, 2015 at 8:31am

It is said that the world record bluegill was a northern-strain; I have seen photos of the second-largest bluegill, which was only a couple ounces smaller and was caught from the same pond (the Coke McKenzie fish that had all the magazine articles written about it), and to me, the mount of that fish left a lot to be desired, so much so that to me it's impossible to tell from the mount whether it's northern-strain or coppernose.  Without doubt several state records over three pounds were northern-strain as I have seen photos of those fish; the Maryland and Tennessee records come to mind.  

Tony, I had always read that it is specifically bluegill in northern climes living longer, rather than specifically the northern strain?  Have you read otherwise?  I'd be interested in that if so.  

As far as coppernose growth, I don't think the parallel is there with hybrid bluegill in terms of quick growth that slows; my understanding is that that growth pattern is typical of hybrids in general, not just hybrid bluegill; and of course coppernose are not a hybrid, but a subspecies, and 100% one species, i.e. bluegill.  

And, in my experience, their growth rate does not taper off as they get larger.  I agree that you don't see as many huge bluegill coming from ponds in the South that have coppernose as what one would expect if they're superior - but to my mind, this can be attributed far more to bad management than to the fish.  I have seen several photos on various websites of two-pound-plus coppernose that had come from ponds in Alabama or Georgia or Mississippi or Texas, and when one reads about the pond one discovers it's being managed for trophy bass, and has threadfin shad, sometimes has golden shiners, has lots of bass being removed every year via electrofishing to keep the bass numbers down...In other words, every single thing one can do to hurt bluegill growth, is being done...And some of those coppers are still exceeding two pounds.  

I realize that the natural tendency is to be skeptical when someone makes the claim I'm about to make, without having photo evidence; but I saw a bluegill in my best guide pond last September that would go three pounds if it weighed an ounce.  It was easily the biggest bluegill I have ever personally seen that was not already mounted in a tackle shop.  And five minutes before I saw that fish, I saw two bluegill that easily would've gone over two pounds each within a second of each other, ten feet apart.  The big bluegill in that pond would drive to tears anyone who thinks supplementally-fed fish are easy pickings - they are hard to get a bite from.  But they do bite sometimes, and I'm hopeful that this spring I will have more evidence of how big coppernose can get in a properly-managed pond.  

That pond has both northern-strain and coppernose.  But the coppernose, in my observation, not only grow much faster out of the gate, but they seem to keep growing at that faster rate even once they're 10" or 11" or better.  Here again, I don't have hard numbers to back that up; that's just my take at this point, based on what I've seen.  

Comment by Andy is OptiMystic on January 29, 2015 at 6:05am

Second hand info that I think I got from that same previous source, but I have read that the recognized record bluegill actually is a northern strain.

Kind of a tangent, but I read an article not long ago that said while our fascination with large fish is not new, our lack of appreciation of the smaller fish is. The Native Americans and early settlers harvested baskets full of small fish and ate them; they didn't just cherry pick the larger ones. A river I referred to earlier (I think in this thread; might have been elsewhere) as overpopulated because it was so full of smallish red breasts is probably in prime shape as far as the natural order of things is concerned.

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