I see Tooty is trying to chat with you about this (chat window "Main Room" down near lower right in browser)

Personally, I would go a little higher in weight, probably a 5 wt matched set, to teach someone on. I think technique matters too much at lower weights. IOW, it may require less effort to cast the lighter line but it also takes more skill. there is almost always a breeze on water. If you go too heavy, technique matters so you don't wear yourself out. I think 5/6 is the sweet spot and that is why you see so many outfits in that range.

I think Andy is right John .....

To John....IMO a 5wt would be the place to start. Only because in general it is a little more versatile than the lighter rigs. I personally prefer a 2 or 3wt but they do restrict what you can throw a little more than the 5wt and the 5wt is still a fun rod to use for sunfish. My personal recommendation however is a shorter rod for youngin's. I started my granddaughter on a glass 6 1/2' 5wt. It takes much less strength to swing a shorter rod than a longer rod. Most 8 year olds are not very strong. I personally would not put over a 7 1/2' rod in their hands. Even shorter would be better. Why wear them out when they first start out? Even many of us old adult men have shoulder and/or elbow problems throwing 9' rods. When they get stronger and develop their muscles and tendons and they want a longer rod for some reason then they can move up. I am not sure many will agree with me but it is what I did and I would do it again. .....It matters not whether you start them a wf or dt line. A level line would be ok IMO. If they step on the line or damage it in some other way the loss is less and if the damage is close to the end of the line just cut it off and put on new terminal tackle.

John-  for what its worth-- those fly rods at wal mart ( martin fly rods) come with line ;; reel;; even a few bugs for around 30 to 40 dollars.  that way you can have a matched set up.  like Ray says-- a long rod for youngsters-- can be hard to use!  if you can find a short rod in around a 5 wt;; i would opt for it!  GOOD LUCK JOHN!!!  and remember-- P A T I E N C E !!!   your gonna need it!!

Thanks guys.  I will go with a 7 1/2 5wt with a double taper, and as for as bugs Carl and David have seen some of my poppers and other bugs.  Thanks for the thoughts.

I switched from DT to WF some years back based largely on false assumptions. This is an interesting article:

http://www.scientificanglers.com/insider/2012/04/wf-vs-dt-debate

which makes DT sound like a good choice for Ray's point also - if the kids damage it learning you can turn it around.

Thanks for posting that article link, great way to look at the DT/WF debate

It crushes my reasoning for going WF for the most part. I rarely feel the skinny line between my fingers. Every now and then I do, but 90+% of the time I am using the part of the line that is identical between WF and DT, but I can't turn the line around to extend the life.

That article does not tell the whole story. We must remember that not all wf lines are created equal. Some have long front tapers, some have long rear tapers some have both, some long heads, and some have short heavy heads. All of these have different casting characteristics. You can also change those casting characteristics by changing the front tapper length. If you have a line that has a long front taper and you are having trouble getting some of your larger sized poppers to turn over you can begin cutting the front tapper off in say 6" incremants. until you get the result that you like. There are limits to the results that can be attained. No matter what you do a 3/0 popper will not cast well on a 5wt line. .....I have a 5wt wf line that got damaged about 3 1/2' from the front tip so I cut it off and put a new loop on the end and took it fishing. I like the way is casts now better than when it was new. I am not suggesting that you go cutting your lines but it can be done and sometimes with good results. These long front taper lines, I believe, is one of the reasons that many like to over weight their rods especially if they generally don't fish much over 30' away.  These long front tapers just won'l properly load the rod on shorter casts.

This does not even take into account the Wulff triangle taper lines and a lot of anglers really like them. They should be great roll casting lines and great for fishing trout but I doubt that they are good for casting heavy flies. But I can't say any of this for sure since I have never used one. I do have a Wulff line on my 9wt salt rod and I just love it and it shoots really well.

when teching someone to flyfish you want the rod to load with as little line as possible.you also wanted the slowest rod possible.i am completely self taught but was fortunate enough to get to know one of the best certified casting  instructors in the midwesthe sure helped with my casting by just explaining the physics of it..if they cannot feel the rod load they will have a hard time getting any rhythm .the eagle claw rods are a steal and are nice soft slow rods.decent line will cost more than the rod.

question for the fly rodders---  what is a good line??  courtland 333??  rio???  has anybody tried that superfly line yet??   some fly lines have a kind of heavy price tag- but are they good lines??  not just talking about dt- wf- fast sinking-- just name brands !!

Ray's comment has me wondering if I should try taking off a little of the taper on my beach combo. Like McScruff, I have been known to frequent the off brand aisle, especially since I have a BPS nearby. Their White River fly line comes in at least a couple of grades - Journeyman (~$30) is made in the USA and Hobbs Creek (~$20) is imported from another part of the world. I can't tell much difference and if I could they would happily take it back.

Should add that BPS has frequent sales on the White River lines; I think I paid $12 for a ST line so I could try and find out that I hate it (ST in general, nothing wrong with the line otherwise). 

there are dozens of brands of flylines but i doubt there are dozens of manufacturers.i suspect less than a dozen.same goes for hooks.mustad and several others are now made in china,i am now seeing good quality off brand hooks.some very high quality at prices that seem impossible.

hahahaa  yep David  i know I;ll get a lot of different answers;; but also-- we might be able to narrow down to some good - descent line to!!    i have tried those ( special buys) - hated them!  and a trade up to a few what i thought was good- turned out not to be not as good as i wanted!!  with fly lines pricey cost with some lines;; and to try to stay away from the ones that dont work well;; just thought if anyone had- or has a good line;; let us know!!   in fact-- i just bought a fly line- says it has low memory coil- stretch.  havent tried it yet hope to this week.

i think you'll know a good line when you see it.bad line is stiff has memory .i bought the tfo 3wt combo from cabela a few years ago.it included a good wide arbor reel with drag line backing and rod.i really lucked out as they were out of the mid grade line that was included in the package,so they gave me some high end rio weight forward line.it is nice stuff but i would never pay 80 bucks for a fly line.i bought a modern glass 3 wt last year and bought some 30 dollar line and the same reel.the difference is not that noticeable to me.if i needed real distance for large saltwater fishing the high end line would be worth it if it gave me that extra 30 feet of distance needed.

Thought it was timely, seeing that ad after having this discussion.

David- im super easy to please on fly line myself- but i also know that if a line isnt ( right) it makes for a long bad day! the thing i am trying to get at is simple;; instead of buying a lot of different types of line to try out ( which can be costly) ;; does any body have a favorite type of line they prefer?  the RIO line- from what i have seen is kind of costly. so is many of the higher end lines;; some cost over a hundred bucks!   courtland makes a good descent line in 333 for around 36 dollars. courtland 444 is also good- at around 60 dollars i believe.  the scientific angler line i bought a few years ago-- i hated!! did not perform to my expectations  at all!!  and i was only roll casting short distances!  it could have been just that one line;; but i doubt if i ever have another one !!

I stopped by my Orvis dealer yesterday and told him my fly line was 15 years old, and that Climax was always my favorite line.  He said that the Rio bass line WF was as close to the old Climax as any line out there and said it would work great for Panfish. The Climax would roll out as nicely as any line I ever used, as well as their leaders.

I will jump un here again. I have several old line. I am embarrassed to tell how old and I have some new lines. The new ones do seem to work better or at least shoot better. My old line just don't want to shoot. I also have some high end lines and some moderate and some cheap lines. Perssonally I can't tell a lot of difference between the good and the cheap. The biggest difference as I see it is the shootability. My old lines don't shoot very well nor do most of my cheap lines. I also have SA, Rio, Cortland, Wulff, Cabelas, BassPro, and a couple of really off brands. My first wf line was a Herter's line and it was terrible. Other than that I don't find a lot of difference. I have never had a line that the tip would continue to float for even a half day of fishing. I paid some big bucks for a Rio 5wt that I don't really car for but it has a an extra long front taper and that maybe the reason. I have a 9wt Wulff that I can cast farther than any line I own but I have never had it on the water but I love the 100' casts for the salt. I have 3 lines for my 7wt one is high dollar but it has yet to be wet as well. The other one is a Cabelas saltwater line and it works fine. Also this winter I bought a $20 SA at WalMart and it does a great job but it has never been wet either. I have an off brand 6wt that doesn't shoot for crap but it casts just as well as the rest of my lines. For my 2 thru 5wt rods I have SA, Cortland, BassPro, Cortland 333 and maybe a Cabelas thrown in. I, again, find little difference between any of them. They cover the full price spectrum. I have heard good things about the Cortland 444 but I have never use one so can't say. The final result of all this is that unless I am looing for something special like a real shot head with a short front taper I intend to stick with low end lines for my general sweet water fishing and the $20 SA at Walmart is a great deal IMO. ....No line will fix casting issues and I have some of those also. Some of these line I bought out of need and a few I bought out of curiosity.

Marty; and Ray;; thanks guys;; this is the type of information i was wanting!!  the SA line i had problems with before;; it kinked un-merceiful!! cast very poor; I have 3 ;3 wt rods; 2 in a 5 wt; and a 8 wt rod. it gets expensive buying line for all of them-- just trying to find out what other guys have tried; and preferr!

Carl....I am curious as to where you live and which SA line you had problems with. Some lines are made for cold temp and some are made for warmer temps and then there are some made special for the hot tropics and they don't interchange well. If you use a warm area line in cold water they will get quite stiff. If you use a cold water line in warm water they get quite soft and don't work well.  Just a thought. I personally partial to SA. I would for 3M when they owned SA. Those old old lines I mentioned before were SA. My last stay in FL I was using an old 9wt SA and I noticed it had about a million cracks in it. I went ahead and used it and it did fine. I trashed it when I got home and bought the new Wulff. That old SA salt water taper AirCell Supreme, which was their top of the line offering when I bought. That line was at least 30 years old so it deserved to be cracked.

I was wondering how small of a fly hook some members have gone to. I rarely tie anything under a 12 but have been reading some stuff lately about finicky bluegills hitting nothing but 16 anbd 18 even 20's. Thoughts ...

Rob most tie larger flies because our eyes ain't what they use to be. In my opinion most bluegills flies from #6 to #12's work well  and catch fish. But if we really set and think about it sometimes smaller is better especially as we get into fall and early winter so your only limited in our case is what you can see to tie. I ordered some small hooks yesterday in hopes maybe I can tie some smaller stuff I guess with my aging eyes and my big hands it will be a challenge in the making. So to some it up its not a bad thing to have a variety of flies in numerous sizes.

Rob, I am pretty much right in line with Dick on #6 to #12's;  I do #14s on some epoxy ants and a couple "soft hackles" I like to use as droppers hooks any smaller and I seem to catch three and four inch gills.

ROB;; I TOTTALLY AGREE WITH BOTH MARK; AND DICKY;; JUST BEING ABLE TO SEE; TO TYE THOSE SMALLER HOOKS ; IS A ADVENTURE IN ITSELF !!  ALSO; THINK ABOUT THIS;;  AFTER YOU TYE UP A FEW OF THOSE SMALLER HOOKS;; THEN; YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO TIE ONE ONTO YOUR FISHING LINE !!  NOT FUN !!  AND; IF  MOTHER NATURE IS AT HER BEST;; YOU OPEN UP YOUR SMALLEST FLY BOX;; ONLY TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD WIND START TO BLOW; AND THERE GOES SOME OF YOUR PRECEIOUS FLIES !   I TRY TO LIMIT MY FLIES ;; TO A NUMBER 10 HOOK;; TO A NUMBER 6 HOOK..  ITS JUST EASIER FOR ME TO SEE TO TYE THEM UP; NOT TO MENTION; TIE ONE ONTO A FISHING LINE !!

I fly fish for all sorts of things.  Including Trout, although I'm not very successful at it.  I have flies all the way down to size 26!  I agree with everyone else, as well.  Tying small is a challenge in itself.  Not to mention actually tying the bug onto my tippett!  Also, like Mark said, the smaller flies tend to change the wee little 'gills. 

Hi Guys n Gals... Anyone have any experience using sink tip or even full sinking lines for Winter gills in about 20 - 30 feet of water. If so Which line do you recommend? My usual lake is much lower than it usually is and Im thinking if I can get down to them along the weedlines I may have some luck. Appreciate any help. I was looking at the new RIO In Touchilne anyone use it?

ROB;; YEARS PAST;; IVE TRIED SINKING LINES; AND JUST DONT  LIKE THEM;; IF I NEED TO FISH DEEPER; I USE  DIFFERENT TYPES OF SINKERS; OR WEIGHTED FLIES ; OR JIGS; SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT ANY WAY.  SINKING LINES; TO ME; SINK TO FAST;  EVEN AFTER TRIMMING OFF A LITTLE OF THE SINK LINE..  MY PREF IS; TO ADJUST THE LINE; TO THE DESIRED RATE OF SINK;  I WANT IT TO BE.

Anyone tried Furled leaders. I've heard they can make a huge difference with your fly casting as they have no memory at all and turn over very nicely.?

Thank you very much Joe. Got some silly questions. What are your furled leaders made of, Mono, Fluro, Braid. How deep can you fish them. Any help appreciated. Thanks

I'll have to check my Feather-Craft catalog, but I think FC makes furled leaders in both mono and fluoro.

Yes, they do not have memory, and they will turn over flies nicely.

What I noticed is that even if the furled leader is slathered with floatant, after a few casts, the leader would still soak up water and start to sink.  If I was using wet flies/nymphs/buggers, no biggie.  However, I tend to use foam flies on top for Sunnies, and the leader sinking would make hooksets harder, not to mention eventually dragging the foam bug down with it.

I've been using knotted mono leaders for a couple years now.  They do work, but the knots will catch on the weeds.  It's an acceptable trade-off for me.

Now, if I ever get around to making a furled leader jig, I'll twist up my own furled leaders using thread instead of mono.  I've heard that a thread furled leader will float in the film.

Guys let me add my 2 cents worth on the leader comments.  I quit using tapered leader several years ago now I use spin cast line of 2 to 4 lb and just rip off about 7 or 8 ft and use that and I have doing it for years and it is a bunch cheaper.  I know some folks will say I'm crazy but I have feel that not the only one.

i use 6# SpiderWire braid...

JOHN;;  I DO THE SAME THING BUDDY;;  I JUST USE THE  MONO LINE INSTEAD OF TAPERED LEADERS; AT THE END OF MY FISHING TRIP; REPLACE THE ONE I USED;;  ITS A LOT EASIER IVE FOUND !

I tie a section of 10# mono to my fly line and then tie in 6# test to that for my leaders, Sometimes I'll use 4# test and taper further.

I use about a six inch butt section on the end of my fly line and the mono, the #2 I use as a tippet and only about 18 inch of it. If a stick up decides it catch my bug I will only lose it and the #2. 

Carl turned me onto the Mono idea last year. I did manage to try it out and seemed to work pretty good. I think I'm using 8 lb test so I have to tie on a 2 or 4 lb leader or tippet especially on my 2wt don't need to be breaking my Fly Rod.

on my blue gill rods i will use either a trout weight tapered leader or i'll use a eye inserted into the fly line itself with any where from 9 to 12 ft of 4 pound mono.

Me, too, John. I just use a regular trout taper. It makes casting easier.

Started fly fishing last year and use a 3 wt for blue gills.  What a blast!  Charleston has some great ponds to fish gills and I hope to get to fish most of them.