I currently have 2 lines in service that are well over 20 years old. The one has seen very little service and has bee kept in storage loaded on a reel. The other is a 5wt and has seen a lot of service. It is a WF and the tip end got cut about 4 or 5' from the tip. I cut it off just above the cut and made a new loop in the end and she still works just fine. Actually I think I like it better now. Both lines are old SA lines. I also had a 9wt about the same age that I retired a couple of years ago since it was cracked all up and down the line. I fished it that way for over a month and it still worked pretty well as far as I could tell.
Yes, I would like to try the slick 50 to see if it will help these 2 old lines shoot better and I also have a real cheap 6wt that I would like to try it on. I may try it on some other lines as well. I seldom clean my warm water lines since the water I fish is quite clear. My salt water lines get cleaned after each use.
Dick, the slick 50 stuff is called 303 Aerospace Protectant (the original). There are a few reformulation for different things, but the original is used primarily in the marine environment. The company also reformulated the original with a more powerful recoating UV agent this year. Once I use mine up, I'll order another gallon of the new reformulated marine's protectant. Crazy stuff.
Ray, whether it's freshwater or saltwater, after usages, clean and recoat. Why? if you believe warm freshwater is not as bad as saltwater, you're in for a big..big..surprise.
Under intense heat, the effect is limited. However, under normal, even brutal, sun exposed condition (like the Salton Sea scenarios I've tested the compound on), I won't be going back to other dressing or methods. This 303 is on all my gears now. Just make sure not to apply on your rod's handle. I use it all over the house, car, kayaks, and even float tube. The funny part is, I lend the float tube out to friends, and completely forgot not to spray down the seat area, well, let's just say the reports I got from the Fish Cat float tube outing were quite hillarious.
Okay 303, I know what it is. Good looking stuff from what I've read.
I've never seen it for sale around these parts, however. For that matter, there aren't any fly fishing outfitters either...
But thanks Leo for clearing it up. You are the man....
so i looked at the first 30 -50 ft of my fly line on 3 setups... pretty grimy ... from surface water slime... they've never been cleaned
what is the recommended cleaner. will dawn work? gentle enough for a duck... right? turtle wax F21 is a close competitor for aerospace 303 at 25% of the price... any body use that?
Ken;; strip the line from your reel ;; any kind of good soap will work . soak in luke warm water for 10 minutes;; then rinse. if its real grimy;; soak it again;; then rinse. apply a protectant;; your set!!
These are my all time top bluegill flies... various color kip-tail mix for dubbing and bead-chain eyes... the buggier the better...use varies types of tails....weighted and un-weighted sizes, 10 -14 troll these with sinking lines long leader in the middle of ponds/lakes... HOLD ON!
These flies can either be weighted with a couple of wraps of lead first then dub over it to get them to sink down deeper in the water column when out deeper in the lakes or ponds... when trolling I have experimented & had great luck with sinking line slowly kicking along with a float tube, the kicking action give these flies life... although unweighted with just bead chains eyes & sinking slowly with is deadly; floating line and intermediate line works well also closer to the shore line, Gills hit this flies aggressively, also have caught trout , bass, crappie, and perch , I try to match the color with the same color bottom of the pond...brown for wood, green for vegetation, black for muddy, grey for clay bottoms, most insects can change colors, camouflage themselves with the same surrounding colors from predators that way. I also cast them along the edge of the shoreline and have tremendous consistent action with a 3-4wt fly rod
To make the dubbing , I cut the kip tail to about 1/4" to 1/3" in length... make my own dubbing, mix different colors to the type of ponds & lakes I am fishing...I mix 75% kip tail amount with 25% rabbit fur to make the dubbing bind better on the thread, again the more uglier, wilder and buggier these flies are; the more aggressive and faster the action is..You can make hundreds of flies with one or 2 calf tails and rabbit fur....#10 to 14 size I find the best...
I find Big Brahma gills are DEEP... and so I love trolling these flies slowly. I think the bead chain eyes is a HUGE attractor, fish identify this a a high protein food source from a far distance and they clobber it. Try trolling it with tandem fly set up and OMG!... watch out... Gills, Bass & Crappie "fish up", they look up and ambush their prey from underneath... I have often caught 2 fish at a time and see gills come up 6 foot in the water column to take these flies...have fun and try them out, try different tails sources...Use a fine Seine net at the edge of a pond/river/creek and you'll be amazed to discover the amount of dragon fly nymph and similar other type of ugly looking nymphs/bugs that live directly under our feet...Pond biology 101... Fascinating, the meat and potatoes of fish world...go get'em boys
Good info.
The color changing thing was a new one on me. I assumed they adapted as a group to their local surroundings through natural selection.
The dubbing blend is great, easy to make as I thought. They remind me of Briminators, without the hackle collar.
Thanks.
tie on hook both ends of a piece .this should leave you with a loop.insert some thing in the loop and twist it til it starts getting taught.now fold the end of the loop back toward where you tied in the ends.it should wind around itself.you could look it up on google too.sure there are vids
Most modern fly rods have a total lure/fly weight range on the rods themselves. However, I have used 1 to 2oz cranks/lures/weights on my 8wt in the past to stir up troubles at the sandy bottoms to draw out hidden monsters.
sure it will cast-- but will take getting use to-- just have a wide open space till you get it down right. besides; how will you know if you dont try it!!
I will try it. But if all I had gotten as responses were horror stories about snapped leaders or accidental body piercings then I might have decided not to. ;^>
The max I might try is 1/64th; above that weight I can get enough distance with a UL.
i would use a SLOW rod.keep the line speed down.tungsten bead flies i use seem to weigh about 1/100 and i cast them well on a 3wt.at some point tho i go to a spinning rod
If you get a hankering to experiment, one of my favorite lures is the Flatfish. It was was designed back when there were two options for anglers:
Classic fly casting
Clunky Bait casting
If you want an absolute line the sand, here, I can't give you one.
I would suggest you get a couple F1-F3 Flatfish and some #0-#2 Idaho spinners, the latter fit up with #6-#8 Wooly Buggers.
Start small, use tippet rings for ease of swapping, and see what happens.
These worked great for grandad, so they seem like a good place to start, today.
PS never abandon the fly rod, just because another method might cast your bait. The fly is Art, the rest mere function.
When possible, always choose Art. The results are the same, but your soul is made better by Art.
Andy there is no set rule for stripping line from the reel to role it out;; its what your comfortable with.. generally i strip from the reel 3 to 5 times and roll it out. but i have been doing it for a real long time-- about 20 years or better!!only by practising it-- can you get better with it. wish i could be with you for some pointers to give ya first hand!!
Carl, the reason I asked is that I have a hard time rolling the heavier nymphs; they sometimes sink so far before the energy gets there that the loop collapses.
David, I enjoy fly fishing too much to do it when I don't, if that makes any sense.
OK, where do Woolly Buggers rank as far as great Bluegill flies? And are those Buggy Bluegill Spiders as great as they say? I hope so as I/ve been busy tie a bunch. I also have hopes for poppers. This is my first year to target Gills with a flared. Thanks
Like all fish, gills orient to one of two points in the column:
Surface
Somewhere between the surface and the bottom, aka, Subsurface
Time of year and available forage dictate which.
A difficult reality for most anglers is this: surface feeding and orientation account for about 10-20% of the total fish taken. Put another way, for every surface feeding bluegill, there are many others, watching. It's also a general truth that few genuinely trophy sized bluegill are caught on surface flies.
That said, subsurface flies are then the likeliest to catch fish, consistently.
Poppers are fun, and I love em. But when their bite slows, it's time to look below the surface.
Enter the Wooly Bugger and Bully's Bluegill Spider.
The former is probably the single best streamer-type fly of all time. It's been said that more fish have fallen to the WB than any other.
Bully's Spider is the brainchild of Terry and Roxanne Wilson, members here at BBG. It is a very focused tie, it's recipe quite specific.
Where the Wooly Bugger is forgiving, Bully's Spider is a precise thing.
Do they work on bluegill? Yes!
But size is crucial. Something between 8-12 is about right. Keep the small mouth of the bluegill in mind.
We've all seen those pugnacious sunfish that get themselves hung on crank baits, large spoons and what have you. But bluegill don't always strike to gobble - they tend to "swat" bigger foods first, and come back around for their (hopefully) stunned prey. Those admirable little fish that end up stuck on these big lures are reaction swatting, and are essentially a fluke. Fun, yes- but not dependable.
Bottom line, the forage that triggers bluegill feeding MOST will fit on a nickel.
So, I like bluegill baits a little smaller, and tied a bit sparse. I also prefer somber colors; black, brown, olive and tan/white being preferred. A bit of orange, yellow or red as "trigger spots" is a personal choice. I weight them so they sink slowly, and I really like bead chain eyes on the Woolies.
A few floating flies added to the poppers and the two flies mentioned here are really ALL you need. That's a wet-blanket statement when you consider all the really cool flies you MIGHT tie and fish. But for a first year fly flicker, it's a great place to start.
Bill Duncan-- to add somewhat to David-- a dropper on a popper is EXTREMLY deadly!! a very slow sinking spider;; ant; or the like-- tied onto the hook of a popping bug- roughly 18 in. to 2 feet behind the popper, and a lot of times i catch 2 gills at one time!! the spiders i use at that time are called legions bream killer-- super easy tie!!! the popper actually acts as a float for the spider;; and the gills swat the popping bug constantly;; giving more fun to them!!
Richard Allen Rupp
My last comment is, whimever said it is right, buy the set you can afford.
And for all but 7% of us, a weight forward is the way to go.
Nov 19, 2014
Ray Ditzenberger
I currently have 2 lines in service that are well over 20 years old. The one has seen very little service and has bee kept in storage loaded on a reel. The other is a 5wt and has seen a lot of service. It is a WF and the tip end got cut about 4 or 5' from the tip. I cut it off just above the cut and made a new loop in the end and she still works just fine. Actually I think I like it better now. Both lines are old SA lines. I also had a 9wt about the same age that I retired a couple of years ago since it was cracked all up and down the line. I fished it that way for over a month and it still worked pretty well as far as I could tell.
Yes, I would like to try the slick 50 to see if it will help these 2 old lines shoot better and I also have a real cheap 6wt that I would like to try it on. I may try it on some other lines as well. I seldom clean my warm water lines since the water I fish is quite clear. My salt water lines get cleaned after each use.
Nov 19, 2014
Leo Nguyen
Dick, the slick 50 stuff is called 303 Aerospace Protectant (the original). There are a few reformulation for different things, but the original is used primarily in the marine environment. The company also reformulated the original with a more powerful recoating UV agent this year. Once I use mine up, I'll order another gallon of the new reformulated marine's protectant. Crazy stuff.
Ray, whether it's freshwater or saltwater, after usages, clean and recoat. Why? if you believe warm freshwater is not as bad as saltwater, you're in for a big..big..surprise.
Nov 19, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
Nov 19, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
I just dab a bit on a soft cloth and rub down the line.
I dunno, I don't know much, but it seems to work.
Nov 19, 2014
Leo Nguyen
David, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f8Cs5upI3Q
Under intense heat, the effect is limited. However, under normal, even brutal, sun exposed condition (like the Salton Sea scenarios I've tested the compound on), I won't be going back to other dressing or methods. This 303 is on all my gears now. Just make sure not to apply on your rod's handle. I use it all over the house, car, kayaks, and even float tube. The funny part is, I lend the float tube out to friends, and completely forgot not to spray down the seat area, well, let's just say the reports I got from the Fish Cat float tube outing were quite hillarious.
Nov 19, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
I've never seen it for sale around these parts, however. For that matter, there aren't any fly fishing outfitters either...
But thanks Leo for clearing it up. You are the man....
Nov 19, 2014
dick tabbert
Thank you Leo for the updated info.
Nov 19, 2014
dick tabbert
Great little vid on the 303.
Nov 19, 2014
Marty Lemons
Thanks for all the suggestions, as I am going to start off with the SA Air Cell Panfish specific line for $25.00
Nov 19, 2014
carl hendrix
hey Dicky-- yes sir I have used that slick 50 stuff!! ( Leo;s 303 actually!!) good stuff to!! great information on this subject!! thanks guys!!
Nov 19, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
Heck yeah - do it!!
Nov 19, 2014
Slip Sinker
so i looked at the first 30 -50 ft of my fly line on 3 setups... pretty grimy ... from surface water slime... they've never been cleaned
what is the recommended cleaner. will dawn work? gentle enough for a duck... right? turtle wax F21 is a close competitor for aerospace 303 at 25% of the price... any body use that?
strip the line and soak?
im looking at getting this done today
Nov 22, 2014
carl hendrix
Ken;; strip the line from your reel ;; any kind of good soap will work . soak in luke warm water for 10 minutes;; then rinse. if its real grimy;; soak it again;; then rinse. apply a protectant;; your set!!
Nov 22, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
If you don't have a protectant, don't fret.
You can get one.
Nov 22, 2014
Gillbuster
Nov 22, 2014
Gillbuster
These are my all time top bluegill flies... various color kip-tail mix for dubbing and bead-chain eyes... the buggier the better...use varies types of tails....weighted and un-weighted sizes, 10 -14 troll these with sinking lines long leader in the middle of ponds/lakes... HOLD ON!
Nov 22, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
Dragonfly nymphs, for the most part.
Care to share your recipe?
Nov 22, 2014
dick tabbert
Nice ties Gillbuster kinda look like dragonfly nymphs.
Nov 22, 2014
carl hendrix
real good looking ties gillbuster! do you use a float with these ??
Nov 22, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
And you troll these?! That's different....
Nov 22, 2014
Mark Sleeper
nice flies
Nov 22, 2014
Ray Ditzenberger
I, too, like your flies.....You indicated weighted and unweighted. Are you saying you add weight beside the bead chain eyes?
Nov 23, 2014
Richard Allen Rupp
Nov 23, 2014
Mark Sleeper
yes also interested in dubbing /kiptail
Nov 23, 2014
jim cosgrove
nice flies,maybe i can do something with the 20 something kip tails i got a deal on a couple years ago.
Nov 23, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
Nov 23, 2014
Gillbuster
These flies can either be weighted with a couple of wraps of lead first then dub over it to get them to sink down deeper in the water column when out deeper in the lakes or ponds... when trolling I have experimented & had great luck with sinking line slowly kicking along with a float tube, the kicking action give these flies life... although unweighted with just bead chains eyes & sinking slowly with is deadly; floating line and intermediate line works well also closer to the shore line, Gills hit this flies aggressively, also have caught trout , bass, crappie, and perch , I try to match the color with the same color bottom of the pond...brown for wood, green for vegetation, black for muddy, grey for clay bottoms, most insects can change colors, camouflage themselves with the same surrounding colors from predators that way. I also cast them along the edge of the shoreline and have tremendous consistent action with a 3-4wt fly rod
To make the dubbing , I cut the kip tail to about 1/4" to 1/3" in length... make my own dubbing, mix different colors to the type of ponds & lakes I am fishing...I mix 75% kip tail amount with 25% rabbit fur to make the dubbing bind better on the thread, again the more uglier, wilder and buggier these flies are; the more aggressive and faster the action is..You can make hundreds of flies with one or 2 calf tails and rabbit fur....#10 to 14 size I find the best...
I find Big Brahma gills are DEEP... and so I love trolling these flies slowly. I think the bead chain eyes is a HUGE attractor, fish identify this a a high protein food source from a far distance and they clobber it. Try trolling it with tandem fly set up and OMG!... watch out... Gills, Bass & Crappie "fish up", they look up and ambush their prey from underneath... I have often caught 2 fish at a time and see gills come up 6 foot in the water column to take these flies...have fun and try them out, try different tails sources...Use a fine Seine net at the edge of a pond/river/creek and you'll be amazed to discover the amount of dragon fly nymph and similar other type of ugly looking nymphs/bugs that live directly under our feet...Pond biology 101... Fascinating, the meat and potatoes of fish world...go get'em boys
Nov 24, 2014
Mark Sleeper
thanks for the info Mark
Nov 24, 2014
David, aka, "McScruff"
The color changing thing was a new one on me. I assumed they adapted as a group to their local surroundings through natural selection.
The dubbing blend is great, easy to make as I thought. They remind me of Briminators, without the hackle collar.
Thanks.
Nov 24, 2014
Kevin
does anyone know how to make a rubber furled tail similar to the one on the tail of a wilson brim killer fly??
Feb 25, 2015
jim cosgrove
tie on hook both ends of a piece .this should leave you with a loop.insert some thing in the loop and twist it til it starts getting taught.now fold the end of the loop back toward where you tied in the ends.it should wind around itself.you could look it up on google too.sure there are vids
Feb 25, 2015
carl hendrix
hey Kevin-- do you use those spiders as a dropper on a popping bug ? I do!! I make a legion type bream killer- deadly little thing to!!
Feb 25, 2015
Andy is OptiMystic
Is there any rule of thumb for max fly weight? I am thinking about trying 1/80 oz jigs on my 6 wt.
Feb 26, 2015
Leo Nguyen
Most modern fly rods have a total lure/fly weight range on the rods themselves. However, I have used 1 to 2oz cranks/lures/weights on my 8wt in the past to stir up troubles at the sandy bottoms to draw out hidden monsters.
Feb 26, 2015
jim cosgrove
may not cast pretty but you should have no problem.just watch your back and neck and ear.
Feb 26, 2015
carl hendrix
sure it will cast-- but will take getting use to-- just have a wide open space till you get it down right. besides; how will you know if you dont try it!!
Feb 26, 2015
carl hendrix
Andy-- forgot to mention;; casting jigs-- with a fly rod;; is where roll casting really comes in handy!!
Feb 26, 2015
Andy is OptiMystic
I will try it. But if all I had gotten as responses were horror stories about snapped leaders or accidental body piercings then I might have decided not to. ;^>
The max I might try is 1/64th; above that weight I can get enough distance with a UL.
Feb 26, 2015
jim cosgrove
i would use a SLOW rod.keep the line speed down.tungsten bead flies i use seem to weigh about 1/100 and i cast them well on a 3wt.at some point tho i go to a spinning rod
Feb 26, 2015
Andy is OptiMystic
How much line do you typically strip and release in a roll cast?
Feb 26, 2015
Andy is OptiMystic
The roll cast question is specifically about roll casting a sinking fly or jig.
Feb 26, 2015
David, aka, "McScruff"
Classic fly casting
Clunky Bait casting
If you want an absolute line the sand, here, I can't give you one.
I would suggest you get a couple F1-F3 Flatfish and some #0-#2 Idaho spinners, the latter fit up with #6-#8 Wooly Buggers.
Start small, use tippet rings for ease of swapping, and see what happens.
These worked great for grandad, so they seem like a good place to start, today.
PS never abandon the fly rod, just because another method might cast your bait. The fly is Art, the rest mere function.
When possible, always choose Art. The results are the same, but your soul is made better by Art.
Feb 26, 2015
carl hendrix
Andy there is no set rule for stripping line from the reel to role it out;; its what your comfortable with.. generally i strip from the reel 3 to 5 times and roll it out. but i have been doing it for a real long time-- about 20 years or better!!only by practising it-- can you get better with it. wish i could be with you for some pointers to give ya first hand!!
Feb 26, 2015
Andy is OptiMystic
Carl, the reason I asked is that I have a hard time rolling the heavier nymphs; they sometimes sink so far before the energy gets there that the loop collapses.
David, I enjoy fly fishing too much to do it when I don't, if that makes any sense.
Feb 26, 2015
David, aka, "McScruff"
Feb 26, 2015
Bill Dungan
OK, where do Woolly Buggers rank as far as great Bluegill flies? And are those Buggy Bluegill Spiders as great as they say? I hope so as I/ve been busy tie a bunch. I also have hopes for poppers. This is my first year to target Gills with a flared. Thanks
Feb 27, 2015
David, aka, "McScruff"
Surface
Somewhere between the surface and the bottom, aka, Subsurface
Time of year and available forage dictate which.
A difficult reality for most anglers is this: surface feeding and orientation account for about 10-20% of the total fish taken. Put another way, for every surface feeding bluegill, there are many others, watching. It's also a general truth that few genuinely trophy sized bluegill are caught on surface flies.
That said, subsurface flies are then the likeliest to catch fish, consistently.
Poppers are fun, and I love em. But when their bite slows, it's time to look below the surface.
Enter the Wooly Bugger and Bully's Bluegill Spider.
The former is probably the single best streamer-type fly of all time. It's been said that more fish have fallen to the WB than any other.
Bully's Spider is the brainchild of Terry and Roxanne Wilson, members here at BBG. It is a very focused tie, it's recipe quite specific.
Where the Wooly Bugger is forgiving, Bully's Spider is a precise thing.
Do they work on bluegill? Yes!
But size is crucial. Something between 8-12 is about right. Keep the small mouth of the bluegill in mind.
We've all seen those pugnacious sunfish that get themselves hung on crank baits, large spoons and what have you. But bluegill don't always strike to gobble - they tend to "swat" bigger foods first, and come back around for their (hopefully) stunned prey. Those admirable little fish that end up stuck on these big lures are reaction swatting, and are essentially a fluke. Fun, yes- but not dependable.
Bottom line, the forage that triggers bluegill feeding MOST will fit on a nickel.
So, I like bluegill baits a little smaller, and tied a bit sparse. I also prefer somber colors; black, brown, olive and tan/white being preferred. A bit of orange, yellow or red as "trigger spots" is a personal choice. I weight them so they sink slowly, and I really like bead chain eyes on the Woolies.
A few floating flies added to the poppers and the two flies mentioned here are really ALL you need. That's a wet-blanket statement when you consider all the really cool flies you MIGHT tie and fish. But for a first year fly flicker, it's a great place to start.
Feb 27, 2015
carl hendrix
Bill Duncan-- to add somewhat to David-- a dropper on a popper is EXTREMLY deadly!! a very slow sinking spider;; ant; or the like-- tied onto the hook of a popping bug- roughly 18 in. to 2 feet behind the popper, and a lot of times i catch 2 gills at one time!! the spiders i use at that time are called legions bream killer-- super easy tie!!! the popper actually acts as a float for the spider;; and the gills swat the popping bug constantly;; giving more fun to them!!
Feb 27, 2015
carl hendrix
by the way Bill-- a pix of those bream killers is on my pix page if you want to check them out
Feb 27, 2015