Mine is a South Bend "Spin 22," and I estimate the vintage to be early 60's.
But I'm pretty sure the two companies were connected at some point in the past. I have other reels that are identical from both makers, leading me to think the designs were shared. This wouldn't be anything new; it's been done before and since.
I am almost positive it was a Shakespeare. It had a fairly long nose cone and it had the appearance of spun aluminum. I was conversing with this fella in the area of the late 60's into the mid 70's. He was not a well man when I first met him. He was on disability. His name was Evert Ross. He tied flies but was mostly into rod building at the time. He used mostly Fenwick blanks but he also use some Herter's blanks and another Mfg. that escapes me right now. This other company still makes blanks.
Those reels were solidly built, all metal pieces. The nose cone was
spun aluminum as you suggest. It also served as the drag; it was threaded with a fine thread and you turned it to put more tension
on the spool.
They were hand assembled and somewhat fiddly, which I'm sure
led to their ultimate demise. All things considered, however, they were certainly functional.
I had forgotten that about the drag. I still have my old first spincast Shakespeare reel that Mom bought me for Xmas when I was about 8 or 10 and the drag on it was adjusted in the same fashion. How could I have forgot that. Man, I was proud of that rod and reel outfit. .....Probably 10 years later the tip of the rod got broken and I sent it to Shakespeare for repairs and they replaced it with a whole new tip section at no charge. I was quite happy about it too. ...My first flyrod outfit was Shakespeare too and I still have both outfits.
I seek out older Shakespeare gear, too, along with South Bend. From the late fifties until production shifted to China, I don't think there was any better. At least not for the everyday angler.
Some matched these; Johnson comes to mind as one example. But
I have never felt my focus on these was misplaced.
The Shakespeare/South Bend spincast reels were maintenance
"needy." But if you did your part to keep them clean and lubed,
they did their job.
VERY INTERESTING BLOG DAVID!!!!! AS YOU ALREADY know I'm a Shakesepeare nut of the first order. The old spin cast reels that Shakespeare made that hung under the rod with closed faces you did indeed pull back on the handle to cast if memory serves me. The also made specific rods for these reels and they had an offset handle , another words more cork in the front portion of the grip and about 4-5 rings of cork on the back. Originally I think they made em for Steel head fishing and the reels to match these rods were significant in their day because of the innovation of no push button...... Ya gotta remember one thing of importance when talking about Shakespeare, back in the day they were the leaders of innovation and willing to experiment with different applications of technology.
THE DOCTOR HOWALD PURIST FLY ROD was the prime example of it when in 1965 or there abouts Shakespeare was the first in the industry to use Titanium as a ferrule material and only used it on one rod . When all the other rods were selling for about $30-40 the Howald Purist was $175 . That was alot of money back in the mid 60's for a fishing rod. These rods are not meant to be confused with regular Purist rods from Shakespeare. WOuld really love to get my hands on one of the Howald Purist's because in all my years of collecting have never seen one in person , only pics...........
These under the rod spincast reels were not cheap either. I believe they were like $35 or $40 dollars and that was also a lot of money back then.......and yes $175 for a rod was quite expensive. Fenwick's were only about $50 back then and they were considered highend rods. Back then I don't ever remember ever seeing anybody with a flyrod while on the water. Most fellas in my area were still drowning worms.
HEY DAVID OR ANYONE ELSE: WHAT if anything do you lubricate ferrules with on the older rods with metal ferrules? Sometimes when almost new or new they are a very tight fit and almost impossible to get apart. I use some stuff called Imperial Sizing Die Wax. An oooooooooold time product still made today but hard to find .....
great question Tooty .I just separated that ferrule on the garage sale 'Action Rod' and glued back the female section .Now I want to make sure it doesn't get stuck again when I use it . Would a little WD40 serve well you think ?
Try using nose grease, or a touch of bee's wax, i use nose grease often on the ferrules of my bamboo fly rods, it works fine for me, don't like the commercial applications picks up to much dirt and grime ...
Paul
PAUL you are right about the dirt being picked up!!!!! That's the one down side to what I"ve been using and the nose grease is an old bamboo users remedy and forgot about that . I will try that today and WD also and post my results in an hour or so, THANKS......
nose grease, here. My dad showed me that trick many years ago.
If I wanted something "modern" I'd go with silicone grease...
a very thin amount. Even no-stick cooking spray would work.
I'm also thinking a candle stub, rubbed on the male section will serve. You could keep small candle nub handy with no trouble.
Also, making an effort to clean the two sections of the ferrule will pay of. Don't remove metal, but get rid of any dirt and roughness.
For the male part just gut it lightly withdone FINE emery cloth. For the female section, I've used a small loop of bailing wire, with a scrap of emery paper pinched in. Chuck it in a drill and run it in and out a few times. If you're real handy, you could make a polishing mandrill out of small brass or plastic rod, or similar sized dowel.
As David said, you need to clean the ferrules, fine steel wool, alcohol,
Carbon tet if you have it ... I don't about polishing the ferrule with a drill take too much metal and you've got a serious problem .. Paraffin I find picks up dirt and hardens quickly ...nose grease ya got it with you all the time, no tubes, containers ...
Paul
Carbon tetrachloride, now there's one I haven't heard in a while.
Paul is right, be cautious when polishing ferrules. Smooth out roughness, that is all you want.
And anything you put on a ferrule is no better than the condition of the base metal. All you want is a thin film of lube. IF you can detect its presence, it is probably too much.
Carbon tet is a thing of the past, as I said if you have it ...I'm a hoarder I've got stuff for years and years ...must be very very careful using it ...but anyway use another cleaning agent, denatured alcohol is fine but the more crap you put on ferrules the worse they fit ...polish them by hand and I use good ole nose grease, effective and inexpensive ..
Carbon tet, aka dry cleaning fluid, is no longer available except to industry.
Even there it is being phased out, if it hasn't already been so.
I kept seeing references to it in old writing and looked it up.
Any solvent should do for cleaning out ferrules, though.
Yes Allen. You can rub a ferrule on your forehead, cheek, scalp, etc. for the same effect.
And as Paul notes, these lubricant sources are always with you!
And if for any reason you should run out of nose grease, you can use behind the ear grease, and in extreme emergencies you can rub the
Ferrule on your favorite person of the female persuasion. ... Haha
Paul
i wipe down all my rods and reels with armor all a couple times a year... even spray down all my braid on the spools. my stuff looks and feels new. never any oxidation issues and also protects against uv damage.spray down my boat trailer with wd 40 ... i mean everything... the trailer is a year and a half old and there is no oxidation even on the bare hardware.
I use the Armor All too, Ken.
Did you know WD-40 was originally formulated in the 1950's as a corrosion preventive for missile systems?
It means:
W - water
D - displacing
40 - 40th version
(contrary to populist lore, it contains NO fish oil)
i wipe it down thoroughly. it does evaporate but im sure it does leave a film. i do care about the environment and i do try to leave a small footprint where ever i go.that was one of the positive bullets on my list with buying a four stroker instead of rebuilding my two stroke.
i remember as a kid my dad spraying down his purple worms wit wd 40 and catching bass like crazy... lol
Hi I just found out about fluid film its in a spray can as well as Quart and gallon this is great stuff and its environment safe I used this on my new boat trailer axle and hubs and any thing that might rust. great for cars trucks too. Sleepy
Yeah, Ken, the idea that WD-40 is a "secret" fish attractant has persisted for a long time. This usually stems from the erroneous belief that it contains fish oil.
The manufacturer, however, emphatically denies that and their published MSDS does not support it. They even have a warning on their website beseeching people not to use it as such. But the belief in its almost magical powers remains strong. Im betting the bass liked something else about your dads offerings, other than the WD-40.
Yeah, Dick, a lot of people do. But the stuff washes off almost immediately and there is no evidence to support it's attractant qualities. I've even read one test where they tried it under controlled conditions and the fish wouldn't go near the stuff.
People do all kinds of things, for all kinds of reasons. Ive caught a lot of fish on Beetle Spins the last few years, so my confidence in them is high. I could likely catch as many fish with some other method - but I stick to the Beetle Spin.
The more I think about it, I can see a catfish biting on aluminum foil. I dont think they would be DRAWN to the foil by scent, but they might take a bite out of it if they ran across it on a trotline.They have VERY sensitive electro-receptors, on the same order as sharks. The latter ARE known to bite aluminum items, like motors and stuff.
WD-40 as miracle catfish bait? I gotta remain a skeptic.
since i have started fly fishing a few weeks ago ive noticed a few trends on lake five. the bluegills collect in schools in the calm mornings with their backs breaking the water surface. i would approach these schools and would catch quite a few of these fish that would end up in the 3 to 6 inch range. this activity will start a feeding frenzy. During the day of catching these gills many times large bass will attempt or even grab one of these small gills and take off. on a 3wt this is a great rush but the fight is short lived. one bass of 6lbs made it to the undesized net but released the gill and flipped out of the net. so..... these bass are stalking these schools of gills and picking off the hooked ones. since fishing lake five i have used great restraint and left the bass alone and just concentrated on flyfishing for gills. now im thinking float a couple bobbers out there with small gills as bait.
Ps on the WD 40 you can start A gas or diesel engine, instead of starting fluid which is bad for the engine it wipes off the oil on the cylinder esp 2 strokes .I don't use starting fluid anymore, spray it in the carb or remove the plugs and spray it in then replace the plugs.Sleepy
Concerning the trot line baited with foil and WD-40:
One of the local guides here in OK, "Tiny" Tim Smith, has written several times that he ALWAYS used shiny, nickel-plated hooks back when he used to run trot lines. He would only bait every-other hook, or every third hook. However, when he ran his lines to collect his catch, he would find fish hooked on hooks that were never baited. His theory is the that once a cat was hooked on a baited hook, the thrashing fish will jerk the line, making the unbaited hooks twitch. He theorizes that this shiny hooks, twitching around, cause the other cats to bite them.
I've known of bluegills to hit unbaited gold hooks, Allen.
I suppose its the same, the glint of the metal.
I'm still a skeptic on the WD-40, though. LOL
yes I have been told about WD40 but ice fishing guys that warm their hands on atv or snowmobile exhaust and handle their trap and line with exhaust on their hands catch less or no fish, than ones that don't warm their hands on exhaust, I have witnessed that, it took me a bit to figure it out . Sleepy
well i couldnt fish today (aches and pains) so i was detailing the boat a little today and you know the mineral deposit water ring that forms around the flat camo paint around a jon boat? this ring was unremovable so i thought... wd-40 took it off!!! my hull looks brand new!! THIS IS BECOMING A SICKNESSS WITH ME!!!
hopefully ill bea able to make it out on the lake tomorrow to get my fly fishing fix. ill be fishing for bass on the side with a 3-4 inch gill hooked under the dorsal suspended under a float. ill let you guys know how it turns out.
Ray is correct.
For example, here in SC, you can use gill for bait, but they must be included as part of your total creel limit of 30/day.
But you cannot use them live, on trot or set lines. You may, however, use them as cut bait on these same lines, under the creel limit restrictions.
They are universally considered "game fish," so check out the regulations imposed where you live.
David, aka, "McScruff"
I have one of those reels, Ray, in my collection.
Mine is a South Bend "Spin 22," and I estimate the vintage to be early 60's.
But I'm pretty sure the two companies were connected at some point in the past. I have other reels that are identical from both makers, leading me to think the designs were shared. This wouldn't be anything new; it's been done before and since.
Jul 25, 2013
Ray Ditzenberger
I am almost positive it was a Shakespeare. It had a fairly long nose cone and it had the appearance of spun aluminum. I was conversing with this fella in the area of the late 60's into the mid 70's. He was not a well man when I first met him. He was on disability. His name was Evert Ross. He tied flies but was mostly into rod building at the time. He used mostly Fenwick blanks but he also use some Herter's blanks and another Mfg. that escapes me right now. This other company still makes blanks.
Jul 26, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
spun aluminum as you suggest. It also served as the drag; it was threaded with a fine thread and you turned it to put more tension
on the spool.
They were hand assembled and somewhat fiddly, which I'm sure
led to their ultimate demise. All things considered, however, they were certainly functional.
Jul 26, 2013
Ray Ditzenberger
I had forgotten that about the drag. I still have my old first spincast Shakespeare reel that Mom bought me for Xmas when I was about 8 or 10 and the drag on it was adjusted in the same fashion. How could I have forgot that. Man, I was proud of that rod and reel outfit. .....Probably 10 years later the tip of the rod got broken and I sent it to Shakespeare for repairs and they replaced it with a whole new tip section at no charge. I was quite happy about it too. ...My first flyrod outfit was Shakespeare too and I still have both outfits.
Jul 26, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Some matched these; Johnson comes to mind as one example. But
I have never felt my focus on these was misplaced.
The Shakespeare/South Bend spincast reels were maintenance
"needy." But if you did your part to keep them clean and lubed,
they did their job.
Jul 26, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
A little Vaseline is enough.
Jul 26, 2013
DAVID L EITUTIS
VERY INTERESTING BLOG DAVID!!!!! AS YOU ALREADY know I'm a Shakesepeare nut of the first order. The old spin cast reels that Shakespeare made that hung under the rod with closed faces you did indeed pull back on the handle to cast if memory serves me. The also made specific rods for these reels and they had an offset handle , another words more cork in the front portion of the grip and about 4-5 rings of cork on the back. Originally I think they made em for Steel head fishing and the reels to match these rods were significant in their day because of the innovation of no push button...... Ya gotta remember one thing of importance when talking about Shakespeare, back in the day they were the leaders of innovation and willing to experiment with different applications of technology.
THE DOCTOR HOWALD PURIST FLY ROD was the prime example of it when in 1965 or there abouts Shakespeare was the first in the industry to use Titanium as a ferrule material and only used it on one rod . When all the other rods were selling for about $30-40 the Howald Purist was $175 . That was alot of money back in the mid 60's for a fishing rod. These rods are not meant to be confused with regular Purist rods from Shakespeare. WOuld really love to get my hands on one of the Howald Purist's because in all my years of collecting have never seen one in person , only pics...........
Jul 26, 2013
Ray Ditzenberger
These under the rod spincast reels were not cheap either. I believe they were like $35 or $40 dollars and that was also a lot of money back then.......and yes $175 for a rod was quite expensive. Fenwick's were only about $50 back then and they were considered highend rods. Back then I don't ever remember ever seeing anybody with a flyrod while on the water. Most fellas in my area were still drowning worms.
Jul 26, 2013
DAVID L EITUTIS
HEY DAVID OR ANYONE ELSE: WHAT if anything do you lubricate ferrules with on the older rods with metal ferrules? Sometimes when almost new or new they are a very tight fit and almost impossible to get apart. I use some stuff called Imperial Sizing Die Wax. An oooooooooold time product still made today but hard to find .....
Jul 27, 2013
John Sheehan
great question Tooty .I just separated that ferrule on the garage sale 'Action Rod' and glued back the female section .Now I want to make sure it doesn't get stuck again when I use it . Would a little WD40 serve well you think ?
Jul 27, 2013
paul sach
Paul
Jul 27, 2013
DAVID L EITUTIS
PAUL you are right about the dirt being picked up!!!!! That's the one down side to what I"ve been using and the nose grease is an old bamboo users remedy and forgot about that . I will try that today and WD also and post my results in an hour or so, THANKS......
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
If I wanted something "modern" I'd go with silicone grease...
a very thin amount. Even no-stick cooking spray would work.
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Also, making an effort to clean the two sections of the ferrule will pay of. Don't remove metal, but get rid of any dirt and roughness.
For the male part just gut it lightly withdone FINE emery cloth. For the female section, I've used a small loop of bailing wire, with a scrap of emery paper pinched in. Chuck it in a drill and run it in and out a few times. If you're real handy, you could make a polishing mandrill out of small brass or plastic rod, or similar sized dowel.
Jul 27, 2013
DAVID L EITUTIS
GREAT TIPS DAVID AND ALL YOU GUYS AND THANKS....... WILL TRY SOME OF EM THIS AFTERNOON.....
Jul 27, 2013
paul sach
Carbon tet if you have it ... I don't about polishing the ferrule with a drill take too much metal and you've got a serious problem .. Paraffin I find picks up dirt and hardens quickly ...nose grease ya got it with you all the time, no tubes, containers ...
Paul
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Paul is right, be cautious when polishing ferrules. Smooth out roughness, that is all you want.
And anything you put on a ferrule is no better than the condition of the base metal. All you want is a thin film of lube. IF you can detect its presence, it is probably too much.
Jul 27, 2013
Lord of the Fly , Rods
I thought they quit making carbon tet back in the 70's because how bad it caused cancer? LOFR
Jul 27, 2013
dick tabbert
I think your right on the Carbon Tetrachloride. I think its been gone for awhile. I think alot of people replace it with denatured alcohol.
Jul 27, 2013
Ray Ditzenberger
Acetone will also work. Just remember it is quite flammable. I think Carbon tet is still available for commercial use but not public use.
Jul 27, 2013
paul sach
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Even there it is being phased out, if it hasn't already been so.
I kept seeing references to it in old writing and looked it up.
Any solvent should do for cleaning out ferrules, though.
Jul 27, 2013
Allen Morgan
By "nose grease", y'all are talking about the natural oil on a person's nose, right?
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
And as Paul notes, these lubricant sources are always with you!
Jul 27, 2013
paul sach
Ferrule on your favorite person of the female persuasion. ... Haha
Paul
Jul 27, 2013
Slip Sinker
i wipe down all my rods and reels with armor all a couple times a year... even spray down all my braid on the spools. my stuff looks and feels new. never any oxidation issues and also protects against uv damage.spray down my boat trailer with wd 40 ... i mean everything... the trailer is a year and a half old and there is no oxidation even on the bare hardware.
Jul 27, 2013
Allen Morgan
Ok, that's what I was thinking. I've heard of that trick before.
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Did you know WD-40 was originally formulated in the 1950's as a corrosion preventive for missile systems?
It means:
W - water
D - displacing
40 - 40th version
(contrary to populist lore, it contains NO fish oil)
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
I'D like to caution you against adding it to the water systems via your boat trailer.
Jul 27, 2013
Slip Sinker
i wipe it down thoroughly. it does evaporate but im sure it does leave a film. i do care about the environment and i do try to leave a small footprint where ever i go.that was one of the positive bullets on my list with buying a four stroker instead of rebuilding my two stroke.
i remember as a kid my dad spraying down his purple worms wit wd 40 and catching bass like crazy... lol
Jul 27, 2013
Mark Sleeper
Hi I just found out about fluid film its in a spray can as well as Quart and gallon this is great stuff and its environment safe I used this on my new boat trailer axle and hubs and any thing that might rust. great for cars trucks too. Sleepy
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Yeah, Ken, the idea that WD-40 is a "secret" fish attractant has persisted for a long time. This usually stems from the erroneous belief that it contains fish oil.
The manufacturer, however, emphatically denies that and their published MSDS does not support it. They even have a warning on their website beseeching people not to use it as such. But the belief in its almost magical powers remains strong. Im betting the bass liked something else about your dads offerings, other than the WD-40.
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Sleepy, thanks for the tip on the Fluid Film product. Ive never heard of it.
Gonna get me some for work and test it out!
Jul 27, 2013
dick tabbert
I know when some of the fisherman fish the walleye run on the Maumee River they swear by WD 40
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
Yeah, Dick, a lot of people do. But the stuff washes off almost immediately and there is no evidence to support it's attractant qualities. I've even read one test where they tried it under controlled conditions and the fish wouldn't go near the stuff.
People do all kinds of things, for all kinds of reasons. Ive caught a lot of fish on Beetle Spins the last few years, so my confidence in them is high. I could likely catch as many fish with some other method - but I stick to the Beetle Spin.
Jul 27, 2013
dick tabbert
David you are a creature of habit a I most most other people.
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
youre right Dick!
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
That's a wonder, for sure, Mike.
Im speechless (not easy to do... LOL)
Jul 27, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
The more I think about it, I can see a catfish biting on aluminum foil. I dont think they would be DRAWN to the foil by scent, but they might take a bite out of it if they ran across it on a trotline.They have VERY sensitive electro-receptors, on the same order as sharks. The latter ARE known to bite aluminum items, like motors and stuff.
WD-40 as miracle catfish bait? I gotta remain a skeptic.
Jul 27, 2013
Slip Sinker
since i have started fly fishing a few weeks ago ive noticed a few trends on lake five. the bluegills collect in schools in the calm mornings with their backs breaking the water surface. i would approach these schools and would catch quite a few of these fish that would end up in the 3 to 6 inch range. this activity will start a feeding frenzy. During the day of catching these gills many times large bass will attempt or even grab one of these small gills and take off. on a 3wt this is a great rush but the fight is short lived. one bass of 6lbs made it to the undesized net but released the gill and flipped out of the net.
so..... these bass are stalking these schools of gills and picking off the hooked ones. since fishing lake five i have used great restraint and left the bass alone and just concentrated on flyfishing for gills. now im thinking float a couple bobbers out there with small gills as bait.
Jul 27, 2013
Mark Sleeper
Ps on the WD 40 you can start A gas or diesel engine, instead of starting fluid which is bad for the engine it wipes off the oil on the cylinder esp 2 strokes .I don't use starting fluid anymore, spray it in the carb or remove the plugs and spray it in then replace the plugs.Sleepy
Jul 28, 2013
Slip Sinker
nice tip mark... thanks!
Jul 28, 2013
Greg McWilliams
Ken, Save the BABY GILL, YOU NEED a BABY BLUEGILL FLY!!!!!!!!
http://bigbluegill.com/photo/picture-126?context=user
Jul 28, 2013
Allen Morgan
Concerning the trot line baited with foil and WD-40:
One of the local guides here in OK, "Tiny" Tim Smith, has written several times that he ALWAYS used shiny, nickel-plated hooks back when he used to run trot lines. He would only bait every-other hook, or every third hook. However, when he ran his lines to collect his catch, he would find fish hooked on hooks that were never baited. His theory is the that once a cat was hooked on a baited hook, the thrashing fish will jerk the line, making the unbaited hooks twitch. He theorizes that this shiny hooks, twitching around, cause the other cats to bite them.
Jul 28, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
I suppose its the same, the glint of the metal.
I'm still a skeptic on the WD-40, though. LOL
Jul 28, 2013
Mark Sleeper
yes I have been told about WD40 but ice fishing guys that warm their hands on atv or snowmobile exhaust and handle their trap and line with exhaust on their hands catch less or no fish, than ones that don't warm their hands on exhaust, I have witnessed that, it took me a bit to figure it out . Sleepy
Jul 28, 2013
Slip Sinker
well i couldnt fish today (aches and pains) so i was detailing the boat a little today and you know the mineral deposit water ring that forms around the flat camo paint around a jon boat? this ring was unremovable so i thought... wd-40 took it off!!! my hull looks brand new!! THIS IS BECOMING A SICKNESSS WITH ME!!!
Jul 28, 2013
Slip Sinker
hopefully ill bea able to make it out on the lake tomorrow to get my fly fishing fix. ill be fishing for bass on the side with a 3-4 inch gill hooked under the dorsal suspended under a float. ill let you guys know how it turns out.
Jul 28, 2013
Ray Ditzenberger
Using BG for bait is illegal in some states so be careful
Jul 29, 2013
David, aka, "McScruff"
For example, here in SC, you can use gill for bait, but they must be included as part of your total creel limit of 30/day.
But you cannot use them live, on trot or set lines. You may, however, use them as cut bait on these same lines, under the creel limit restrictions.
They are universally considered "game fish," so check out the regulations imposed where you live.
Jul 29, 2013