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Comment by Zach Pierce on July 6, 2011 at 6:31am: Well we were only able to catch and haul over 13 LMB, I figured this would be the case since that was our plan.

If we would have been there to catch large BG to eat we would have caught nothing but LMB.

Either way I have a few more in the pond now a I am sure they are excited to see all the easy food they can catch.

Comment by Walt Foreman on June 23, 2011 at 11:22am: If the largemouth are only 6-8" on average you could probably haul 30 or more with no problem in a 30-gallon cooler with an aerator.

If you were catching fish every time you threw in a line, there's a good chance they're overpopulated. If their heads seemed large for their bodies that would be a sign of stunting. If they are overcrowded, I would suggest removing 100 or so bluegill 7" or smaller per acre (don't know how big the pond is). Don't remove the larger ones because they're the ones with the best genetics, and removing too many mature males can permanently damage the gemetics of the entire population.

Comment by Zach Pierce on June 23, 2011 at 6:21am: Made it back out to the pond where we catch the nice BG and again they would hit every time you tossed your bait in, I even caught one of the best fish on just the hook.

Many of the males were super thin so I hope it is just due to the spawn and not lack of food or disease.

Ando of course we caught just as many LMB as ever in the 6-8 inch range, I hope to get out there within the next week to try to pull 20+ out to haul over to my pond to let them go, would like more but will play it safe to get them over there and in the water.

I would like to tag them so I can track the fish from this pond and see if we catch them again later on, but that may be too much trauma for the fish so I may just release them.

I bet they will gain some weight quick with all the GSF they will have to eat, and since the GSF have been eating pellets they should be much healthier snack as well.

Any thoughts?

Comment by Walt Foreman on June 21, 2011 at 10:36pm: Keep every GSF that you catch - if they're too small to clean, throw them on the bank for the raccoons. Keep every catfish, and don't stock new ones - when they get big, four to five pounds or more, they'll bully the bluegill to keep them away from the food, and will eat most of it so that the bluegill don't get much. Also, they learn very quickly so never release them - you won't catch that particular catfish again, and he'll become a big problem down the road.

Yes, release every bass, even if you stock 100+. You want them to eat most of the bluegill - that's what makes the remaining bluegill get big, i.e. they have far less competition for food with other bluegill, which means far more food for each bluegill that survives the bass gauntlet.

The best bluegill pond I've managed up to this point was one of the ones I described earlier. The last few years I managed it, you could fish it for bluegill for three or four hours, and you might only catch ten or twelve bluegill - but they would average fourteen ounces each, and you would invariably catch at least a couple that would weigh a pound or better every trip. And that was without supplemental feeding. In a year or two I'll have several ponds that will beat that, thanks to supplemental feeding.

Limiting their numbers is the single biggest key to growing big bluegill. It's more important than feeding them, or genetics, or anything else you can do.

I would recommend feeding the highest-protein food you can get. I feed a Silver Cup formulation that is 45% protein. If your dealer is telling you he can't get Aquamax 500 that makes no sense, as that size is still widely available elsewhere and any Purina dealer can get any of their products.

You might see if anyone in your area carries Silver Cup. They're a lot easier to deal with than Purina, and their food is considered by many to be the best food in the industry.

600 will not work in certain brands of feeder - none of the Aquapros will throw it, nor will the smaller barrel feeders. So if you have any of the above, your feeder will jam if you put 600 in it. You need 500, or an equivalent size pellet (around 5.5mm) from another company.

Comment by Zach Pierce on June 21, 2011 at 7:13pm: we have access to a 3 acre pond that is like that, you can see some of my pics on here of the fish we have kept although we usally keep the bass and bluegill when we go.

now you are saying I should throw each and every bass back and not keep any to eat.

Even if I stock 100+ fish?

My concern would be the biomass and the LMB taking over so much of it that there may not be room for the large bluegill.

Plus I have CC in the pond as well that are eating the food along with the GSF, HBG and Longears (2), in the pond.

What should and should not be kept to get this thing back into shape?

I am feeding GFC right now and plan to switch to AM 400 and 600 since 500 is not availalbe from the feed store here.

Would that be wise or should I just stick to GFC and just feed more food more often?

Comment by Walt Foreman on June 21, 2011 at 7:04pm: I would recommend not culling the bass, ever. You want them to overpopulate, because that's the condition needed to grow trophy-size bluegill. That's what I was trying to get at in a previous post on this thread - it's near impossible to manage a pond your size for trophy bass, so the most logical approach is big bluegill anyway. I assume you have some interest in big bluegill since you're on this site, and have said how much you'd like to have coppernose in your pond.

In ponds I've managed that had ideal conditions for trophy bluegill, it was common to catch as many or more pound-size bass in an afternoon of fishing as bluegill - but the bluegill averaged nearly a pound apiece. And that was with no supplemental feeding whatsoever. Those ponds got that way because neither I nor anyone else who was allowed to fish the pond kept any bass, of any size, ever. It was exceedingly rare that we caught a bluegill under 8" in those ponds.

Comment by Zach Pierce on June 21, 2011 at 6:06pm: yeah the trip would be about 45 min to 1 hour, but also have to factor in the time to catch them as well.

We have hauled 5-8 over without much air and they seem to do ok, but I plan to use air or something to move the water as we travel.

Maybe we can even get to the pond that is closer and pull some from there.

I wish I would have put more in this past fall now since they did not do much, I guess the worst thing that could happen is I would have to cull a ton of 1/2 - 1 pound bass if they get over populated, but that is ok as they are better to eat that size anyway.

I am sure I will get some nice size GSF as well, or at least the ones that are left.

That is the way the pond was before it was drained and dug out. You would catch a bass every cast and then get a nice 1/2 pound or so GSF.

Just need to find the source of the GSF.

Comment by Walt Foreman on June 21, 2011 at 3:46pm: I've hauled as many as 20 pound-class largemouth at a time in a large cooler with aeration. But I wouldn't try to haul them far like that, not more than a few miles max. If you're traveling further than four or five miles, I'd cut the number down to fifteen or less.

You may have to make a few trips to get enough bass in there, but it will be worth it because they will give you your pond back.

Once you get the GSF greatly reduced, which could be as soon as next spring if you get enough bass in there, then you could add some bluegill. I would suggest coppernose, either larger such as 4-5" or even 6"+, which Overton sells. You might check with Overton's to see if they're ever in your area. Maybe they could meet you halfway or something.

It's almost a certainty that they deliver fish within a three or four hour radius of their hatchery - probably more than that, but that's a safe minimum guess. If so, you would only have to drive about 200 miles to meet them - a small price to pay to get pure-strain coppernose big enough that they wouldn't get eaten in your pond.

But first get the GSF thinned out. You've got the right idea with adding bass. As to size, I would add any I could get.

Comment by Zach Pierce on June 21, 2011 at 12:08pm: The crappie question was more of since the GSF were so many and eat all the LMB spawn I was thinking they may eat all the crappie spawn, assuming the crappie even did spawn.

Plus with the hybrid crappie that are out, I figure they may not be too bad.

So in short I was not going to add crappie, I just was asking a question as to if the GSF could keep them under, or most anyway.

Well I will go get some LMB in the next week or so if I can get away from work and borrow a truck. We will have to hit them early or late (at least I would feel better about it), since the air temps are still cool in the mornings.

But I am going to hit the Catfish Spawn if I can since my father caught some the other day and it got me pumped up. The caught Blues, Channel, and Flatheads.

Then my next task will be to get some LMB in the pond, I just wanted the few HBG I have in there to get a chance to grow before getting the larger bass in the pond. Most are in the 6-14 inch range, but do catch a few larger.

Would there be any size LMB I should not stock in the pond?

How many do you think I could haul in one of those bait tanks with an agitator on it I think they are usually 20-30 gallons?

When should I consider adding Bluegill to the pond (What Size) or should they ever be added?

Thanks

Comment by Walt Foreman on June 20, 2011 at 6:31pm: Stocking crappie into your already-stuffed pond would be the single worst thing you could do to that pond. It would be akin to fighting an infestation of roaches by introducing termites.

Your problem at present is, from everything I've read of your posts, a pond badly overpopulated with green sunfish, one of the worst species about overpopulating. Introducing another species that is even worse about overpopulating ponds, and which would be much more difficult to get under control if they did, would not be a wise decision.

If the crappie had even one half-decent spawn you would have a fish kill due to more fish in the pond than the oxygen in the pond could support. Also, bass can control GSF if there are enough bass in the pond, but they can't control crappie, so if the crappie had a successful spawn, there would be nothing in the pond that could control them and you'd have to rotenone and start over.

I think you need to focus your attention on one species that you'd like to grow in the pond, and devote all your efforts to providing optimal conditions for that species. You mention several different species at different times, which could work in a ten-acre lake but is asking for disaster in a small pond like yours.

My advice would be to stock a bunch - 50 or 75 - bass in the 8"-12" range, and if they don't get the GSF under control in a few months, stock more. From a pond would be preferable to a stream because stream bass of the same size will probably be older, meaning they'll have less lifespan left, and even more importantly, they'll be adapted to cooler, more oxygenated water, and in general completely different habitat than what you would be putting them into, whereas the bass from a pond would be from a habitat similar to what they're going into and thus would have a better chance of thriving.