using a leader???

[cal okeefe]

i hear some people say they use leaders.. why would you use a leader for panfish.. just curious ..

[David, aka, "McScruff"]

I do it for several reasons, now that I'm asked to think about it

1. It's just something I've always done. This is primarily because my dad was an avid fly  fisherman; he impressed it in me. Essentially I'm using a hybrid technique, one adopted from hair-and-feather fishing methods.

2. Also I don't want to wind my reel spool full of line that mostly does nothing. Panfishing is generally done in 30 feet or less of water and rarely do I catch line stripping monsters.  In other words, most of the line remains on the spool, acting as filler.

2A. At the same time, a reel that is wound with just 20 yards of line does not cast well. We use some pretty small tackle and lures in panfishing, making casting ease something you have to work to achieve. Also, the small tight loops at the core of a spool set up badly. Finally, should I luck up and tie into some giant of the depths, I may indeed run out of line to play it with.

3. I do a lot of fishing in and around wooded riverbanks, lake shores, and snag infested shallows. A light leader breaks; heavier line tends to hang on. This stresses the equipment and creates a great commotion in the water when battling "stick fish," "weed woggies" or overhead "twig tangles."  I rather the leader breaks off.

So my practice is to fill the bulk of the spool with a usable, yet value priced, backing line - then add a working length of higher quality, pan fish line on top of that. In the old days, reels were sold with a filler collet of cork and in time, plastic. The fisherman attached this around his reels' spool, allowing him to use less line. Keep in mind, people were less wasteful in those days, line was woven braid which came dearly, so using less was considered practical. Today we think nothing of filling a spool with polymer line... and stripping it off next week.  Subsequently, filler collets have disappeared from today's fishing scene.

I don't generally back-fill this way for my heavier fishing rigs, or my salt water outfits. This is just for panfish.

[Bill "Musky" Modica]

Most of my fishing is done with braided superlines like Fireline, Suffix, and Power pro....these light gauged lines are extremely sensitive but highly visible in clear water.....Fluorocarbon leaders are abrasion resistant and almost invisible.

[Tony Livingston]

I have to admit to wondering this myself. I've never used anything on my open water reels except 4lb test mono,  and I've never had any problems. I sometimes feel like there must be something I'm missing out on by not using a leader, since so many people wouldn't think of going fishing without one, but I just don't get it. Granted, I'm sure there are applications that demand using a leader, such as fly fishing, but for the BG fishing that I do I can't see any advantage.

I was always taught that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, so if I spool up with a braided superline, then tie on a length of light mono as a leader, my connection to the fish will still fail at a certain tensile strength, the same as if I had just filled the entire spool with the mono. What gives?

I fish primarily for BG, but I have landed many catfish in the 6-10lb range, and one 31lb grass carp, all on 4lb line with no leader. A proper drag setting, to my mind at least, seems far more critical than having to use a leader to make up for a shortcoming of some sort in the main line.

I've been BG fishing for 40 years now, and I'm satisfied with my fishing style, but I am always open to trying something new, IF, there is a valid reason for making the change. I use a 54" rod, with a Pfleuger president reel spooled with 4lb mono, and I fish strictly for BG. If someone could point out the benefits of using a leader in this application, I would be very interested in learning more about it.

[Johnny wilkins]

Bluegills are sight feeders so I have to ask the question back - why aren't you using a leader?

If I have 3 lb. main line on my reel - I have 2 lb. leader on - because what I cast needs to be strong but since Bruce is the only one catching 3 lb. bluegill freak beasts - 2 lb. leader is more than adequate.

Then the next question I have is what leader to use and this is probably the key question - go too thick and you will miss out on fish. Thinner leaders flex more. Thinner leaders offer less resistance in the water column. In nature there is zero / next-to-zero resistance from insects when gills go to feed on them - they go in - the get ate. (period).

With heavier lines like 4 lb. Stren when the gill goes to suck in your bait and you are using a stiff leader- it doesn't move as fast - it - resists. So - why would you want to add resistance - why would you want to make it harder on the gill to feed?

I know no one has this thought process:

"I am getting ready to fish, let me see, should I go with the thicker 4 lb. line and make it not so easy for the fish I am trying to catch. Yes, I want some quiet time alone with no fish so I will go with that 4 lb. line without a leader. I remember the last time I went out I had to take 20 fish off the hook - no this morning I want maybe 5 and I want some relaxation time. A 2 lb. leader would be way too easy for the fish to eat and they wouldn't see it - that would wreck my morning. The last thing I want to do is get my hands wet that many times."

I say no one thinks like that or has had those thoughts but now you might.  If you can't find a good 2 lb. leader - a 1 lb. leader will do until you are catching a lot of fish. First problem - get fish to bite. Second problem once they are biting, how can I land them faster. Well, sometimes adding thicker leader will slow down your bites so it is impossible to get them in faster when they see your thick leader and back away.

There is a time and place for a 4 lb. leader but this is ultra-super rare. I would use this only after I was catching a lot of fish - like 100+ and my goal is to reach 350 fish like in competitions. If I was in a thick group of fish and catching more than 3 a minute to get them in faster. This is a tactic I use in competitions and I do have thicker rigs ready -but like I said, they rarely get deployed. Mostly the 2 lb. leader does the deed. Especially U.S. 2 lb. Stren leader on which you can take down an 8 lb. fish.

The other reasons to use a leader - deep-hooked fish. If you attach a leader, and you want to save a prized bull bluegill, returning it to the water, have spare leaders ready. Snip that line the hook will rust out in a matter of weeks - fish saved.

Lastly - use a leader to fish in brush or snags. If you snag, the lighter leader will break first before the rest of your rig. You can break this off without pulling up the branches and leave the fish undisturbed. I sometimes fish an even lighter leader in these cases so it breaks of easier to not spook the fish. Now- the ultraultralight brush  leader works unless the fish are swimming back into the brush and you are breaking off. A bite, hook set and then snag tells you they are heading back into their house. 

And - I never use drag - if I do, a mistake has occurred. [ food for thought ].

Great question. Try some thin leaders and improve your fishing 10x over.

[Tony Livingston]

Well, if you're using 3lb on the main with a 2lb leader, then why not spool the whole reel with 2lb? That's my entire question, if the 2lb leader does what you want, then why bother adding any 3lb line at all? What's that 3lb main line gaining you?

 Original Stren 4lb test has a diameter of .008". 2lb test comes in at .006". I would think it safe to assume that 3lb test would be somewhere on the order of .007" That's .001" difference in the line diameters given in your example. Bluegill are most assuredly sight feeders, but I have a hard time believing that they can spot a .001" difference, especially if using a premium grade of line that is as close to invisible in the water as you can get.

As far as deep hooked fish, I personally question that old "leave the hook it will rust out", theory. As someone who has raised Bluegills in his own ponds, I can attest to the fact that bigger Bluegill are best handled carefully, they are not always as hardy as an angler would like to believe. In a typical scenario an angler releases a deeply hooked fish, with the hook still in place, and watches it swim off, believing all is well. He or she doesn't visit that spot, or lake, every day for the next week to follow up on the fish's condition. Well I can, and I do. And in the majority of cases, I will find that fish floating in less than a week. I am sure there are cases where the fish survived the ordeal, but I would wager there are far more where it did not.

However, in the interests of comparison, let's assume that cutting the line is our best option. You cut your leader, leaving a hook and say, 1" of 2lb line, at .006" diameter. I cut my line, leaving a hook and 1" of 4lb line, at .008 diameter. You contend that that fish has a better chance of survival with your rig, then it does mine? I doubt it.  I can't see .002"of diameter making any difference.

Fishing in brush or snags... If a lighter leader allows you to break off without disturbing the fish, then wouldn't an entire spool of the lighter leader material accomplish the same thing? Remember, I'm not saying that lighter line is not a good thing, I'm just questioning the reasoning behind having any heavier line on your reel in the first place.

You don't use the drag on your spinning reels? What happens when you're Bluegill fishing and you hook up with an accidental carp, or catfish?

As always Johnny, I appreciate your insight, but I'm afraid I'm still not convinced of the superiority of a leader when using an ultralight setup.

[Johnny wilkins]

What brand and size hook are you using I can help you out and try to give you a glimpse into my thoughts.

[Tony Livingston]

Well, I have a variety of hooks in my box, of all different brands. I can say that size wise I prefer #8 or #10.

I think Bill Modica's response has provided me the most food for thought. If I understand him correctly, monofilament isn't a part of his setup. He uses the braid for it's sensitivity, then ties on a leader of fluorocarbon because of it's near invisibility. That makes sense to me, although I wonder if the sensitivity aspect of the braid is dampened somewhat by the fluorocarbon leader? I would also be curious as to his reel size when using this setup, as in, does he use a microsized ultralight reel, or a larger version? Is braid a good match for a micro reel?

The aspect of leaders that befuddles me is when two varying strengths of mono are used together. It just seems to me that filling the entire spool with the lighter mono used as a leader would accomplish the same thing, with less hassle.

I am very curious as to whether or not using a leader, with our Bluegill specific lightweight lines, truly improves the catch ratio when used on a typical spinning/casting outfit. I find myself wondering sometimes if the "big fish technology",  that gets applied to Bluegill gear is truly necessary, or is put there out of habit.

I would like to see a test, where two anglers are placed in the same boat, given identical rod and reels, and using the same lure. One reel is spooled with a 4lb braid/fluoro combination, the other with 4lb mono. They fish the same technique, in the same area, for an hour or so, then trade gear and fish the same time period again . Repeat this experiment three times over different days, and average the results. It wouldn't be perfect, but maybe it would show a result one way or another.

[Bill "Musky" Modica]

Tony, you are correct...I only use mono during the ice period. The Fluorcarbon leaders I use match the test of the braided main line, and most of my open water bluegill reels are large 3000-3500 size

[Tony Livingston]

Gotcha' Bill, thanks for the extra details!

[Johnny wilkins]

The brand of hook matter - Eagle Claw? White Mountain? Owner.
Your tests are a good idea but they should employ different tactics - Bill is talking lures - I am talking live bait. In your test do one with the leaders on the the lures see if the leader impacts the number of "takes". You could take Bill's word for it - he fishes some gin clear water.
i will run this test also to see if the 4 lb. line impacts my fishing in the Spring - in fact İ have a new set of leaders and hooks İ am going to market this Spring for bluegills because the market is in need.
Let me know the brand of line and the brand of hook ( or brands ) and I will do a same time, same place, same bait test and share the data.

[cal okeefe]

ok thanks for the answers guys.. so what i gather people use them for different reasons.. some use them for filler reasons.. some say they are more sensitive..some say they are not as visible to the fish.. but what catches my attention the most is someone said that the leader will break or give before everything else ... this makes me think a leader is actually weaker than if you had one solid line. is this true

[Johnny wilkins]

For live bait - leader is a must.

For lures /spoons having a leader might add a weak point to your rig, but if the leader is the same strength as your main line it should neither be here nor there. The weakest point of any rig is a bad knot. Bad knots should be more of a focus point than the leaders themselves in many cases.

The leader is the performance end of your fishing gear - this is where the action is. Improve your action with fluorocarbon or softer leaders - your main line is for casting.

If you fish brush and you want to save .25 cents - get really thick, thick line so you can bend your hook straight and then bend it back after you pull it free. The cost is not the .25 cents you saved - but the fish you didn't catch because of your dull hook and extra-heavy leader that they avoided. There's my .02 cents...  I have to circle back and say - use a thin leader- catch some fish. Try it.