Comments - Bill Cody and Theo Gallus have a forum discussion in regards to controlling bluegill numbers. - Bluegill - Big Bluegill2024-03-29T12:11:11Zhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=2036984%3ABlogPost%3A1221&xn_auth=noYes Theo, When larger fish ar…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-07:2036984:Comment:22212008-04-07T18:25:05.972ZBill Codyhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BillCody
Yes Theo, When larger fish are grouped in the shallows (esp during spawning or when feeding) and one is careful and lucky in setting the seine, quite a larger fish can be captured in a seine even as short as 15ft long. Although longer seines will usually capture more fish than shorter seines.<br />
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Here are two links to pdf files of two good Pond Management 'Booklets' that have guidelines for interpreting the data collected from seining the shallow areas of a pond . Note it is imporant to record on…
Yes Theo, When larger fish are grouped in the shallows (esp during spawning or when feeding) and one is careful and lucky in setting the seine, quite a larger fish can be captured in a seine even as short as 15ft long. Although longer seines will usually capture more fish than shorter seines.<br />
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Here are two links to pdf files of two good Pond Management 'Booklets' that have guidelines for interpreting the data collected from seining the shallow areas of a pond . Note it is imporant to record on paper what is caught in the seine hauls. These records provide information for the present fish community and info for later years of how the fishery is changing.<br />
Mississippi Manual http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1428.pdf<br />
Texas Manual http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/manuals/tcafs_pond_manual_2005.pdf I am continually amazed by th…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-07:2036984:Comment:21612008-04-07T02:39:17.145ZTheo Gallushttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/TheoGallus
I am continually amazed by the fairly large fish, wrt fingerlings, (6"-8" BG & RES) that can be caught in a 4'x20' seine operated by one middle-aged clutz and an impressed (read "I'm stuck doing this" rather than "Wow, this is neat!") 16 year old.
I am continually amazed by the fairly large fish, wrt fingerlings, (6"-8" BG & RES) that can be caught in a 4'x20' seine operated by one middle-aged clutz and an impressed (read "I'm stuck doing this" rather than "Wow, this is neat!") 16 year old. Seining
The simplest form of…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-06:2036984:Comment:21212008-04-06T20:55:01.703ZBill Codyhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BillCody
Seining<br />
The simplest form of seine is the beach or haul seine which consists of a piece of rectangular netting of uniform mesh size. Floats are attached along the top margin (float line) whereas lead weights or a lead core rope is attached to the bottom margin to keep the lower margin of the seine held close to the pond bottom. Poles or ropes are attached to the ends for pulling the seine. Some sophisticated beach seines have a bunt (or enlarged into a bag) that concentrate and hold the fish in…
Seining<br />
The simplest form of seine is the beach or haul seine which consists of a piece of rectangular netting of uniform mesh size. Floats are attached along the top margin (float line) whereas lead weights or a lead core rope is attached to the bottom margin to keep the lower margin of the seine held close to the pond bottom. Poles or ropes are attached to the ends for pulling the seine. Some sophisticated beach seines have a bunt (or enlarged into a bag) that concentrate and hold the fish in a central area. Some seines can have tapered ends that form wings.<br />
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Many fish hatcheries use seines with mud lines as the weighted bottom line to help the seine perform better. When seines are not able to drag directly on the bottom fish are able to escape under the seine. A mud line is a series or group of heavy corded lines that are attached to the bottom margin to help the seine hug muddy bottoms and prevent the seine from gathering lots of soft mud in the bag. High amounts of mud with fish cause undue stress to fish when being gathered from a seine.<br />
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Advantages of sampling fish with a seine are: A. easy to set or install, B. sampling is rapid, C. a relatively large area can be sampled providing it is relatively flat and smooth bottomed, D. a specific area can be sampled, E. comparatively low stress to the fish, F. can be operated by one person, G. high percentages of fish can be removed fairly quickly from shallow ponds.<br />
Disadvantages: A. large seines are fairly costly, B. gear must be used over smooth, snag free bottoms, C. typically not real effective in water as deep or deeper than the height of the seine, D. not effective in deep ponds with irregular bottoms where seining is limited to small areas of shallows and flats.<br />
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Seining the shallows of a pond can be very effecively used to sample the smaller fish in the pond to assess the overall balance. Several pond management booklets from the various state agencies describe how to tell what the catch from seine hauls mean.<br />
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Since small BG frequent the shallows to aviod predation, seining these areas can catch lots of smaller sized BG that can be removed from the pond to lower their overall density and hopefully improve the growth rate of remaining BG. Research has shown that too many BG on one age group can easaily over graze the zooplankton and small invertebrates to the point that the growth rate is less than optimum. In certain fishery combinations regular manual thinning of the BG can optimize growth of each year class. 5. Trapping
IMO there is not…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-02:2036984:Comment:19212008-04-02T02:47:33.049ZBill Codyhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BillCody
5. Trapping<br />
IMO there is not much to say about removing BG by trapping other than it works well in most instances. I routinely use fish traps to catch and remove BG from ponds. I used two forms of fish traps two years ago for my sampling study that I presented at the 1st Pond Boss Conference. Just about all forms of fish traps from cylinders, to boxes to trap nets to heart shaped traps will catch BG. BG readily enter fish traps that are baited and unbaited, however IMO traps catch more BG if…
5. Trapping<br />
IMO there is not much to say about removing BG by trapping other than it works well in most instances. I routinely use fish traps to catch and remove BG from ponds. I used two forms of fish traps two years ago for my sampling study that I presented at the 1st Pond Boss Conference. Just about all forms of fish traps from cylinders, to boxes to trap nets to heart shaped traps will catch BG. BG readily enter fish traps that are baited and unbaited, however IMO traps catch more BG if the trap is baited with bread, fish food or other attractant food. I have found that all sizes of BG from 3/8" to 9" can be caught in traps. The primariy factor in how big of a BG a trap will catch is how big the entry opening is on the trap. The smaller mesh (0.125"-0.25") traps work best for small BG 0.7"-4" whereas larger BG of 4"-9" can be captured in traps with 1/2" to 1" mesh openings.<br />
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As a general rule traps tend to catch smaller BG than angling with small baited hooks.<br />
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I have two good examples.<br />
Two years ago, I checked the relative numbers of small BG to monitor the fishery in a 0.75 acre pond. I set two 1/4" mesh traps one cylinder style, one box style, for four days in July. All total, the traps collected 1560 BG ranging from 1.3"-4.4". Thus I think traps can be a very good way to collect, monitor or remove excess BG from a pond.<br />
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I have also used 1/2 mesh cylinder traps to catch over abundant intermediate sized BG. In a 0.5 acre pond, two sizes of 1/2" mesh traps, baited with bread were fished twice a day for 5 days. A total of 663 BG were caught and sizes ranged from 2.75 to 6.7".<br />
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Thus I have found that traps can be very effective in sampling and removing BG from a pond. Theo the Lake is La Su An and…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-01:2036984:Comment:19012008-04-01T18:36:28.048ZBill Codyhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BillCody
Theo the Lake is La Su An and is located in NW OH on the La SuAn Wildlife area of 1,161 acres. The Area includes a total of 13 fishable lakes and ponds from 1/4 ac to 82 ac (total 130 ac of fishable waters). The lakes provide an angler harvest of 8" to 11" BG that make up 40-50% of the total BG catch that ranges from 12,000-20,000 annually; 98% are larger than 6". Numbers to be harvested are determined each year from data collected from DNR annual sampling studies. There is a daily bag limit…
Theo the Lake is La Su An and is located in NW OH on the La SuAn Wildlife area of 1,161 acres. The Area includes a total of 13 fishable lakes and ponds from 1/4 ac to 82 ac (total 130 ac of fishable waters). The lakes provide an angler harvest of 8" to 11" BG that make up 40-50% of the total BG catch that ranges from 12,000-20,000 annually; 98% are larger than 6". Numbers to be harvested are determined each year from data collected from DNR annual sampling studies. There is a daily bag limit and numbers of anglers are restricted on each water body. The is a slot limit for LMB and it is common for an angler to catch 30 LMB in one day. Fishing is 5 days per week by reservation permit only to regulate angling pressure. When annual harvest quota is reached then only the largest BG can be removed since they would likely die within a yr or two. When I get more time I want to create an article for Pond Boss mag about this fishery and how it is managed.<br />
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http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/FishingSubhomePage/where_to_fishplaceholder/fishingllsawafrllsawafr/tabid/6111/Default.aspx You are of course correct, Bi…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-01:2036984:Comment:18812008-04-01T16:00:39.417ZTheo Gallushttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/TheoGallus
You are of course correct, Bill, that if you have the angler-hours needed for a certain number of acres, you can have a huge impact on BG numbers.<br />
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The guy who scrapes up a couple of hours a week for fishing will trouble impacting ponds of much size, as I'm sure you would agree after we negotiated a minimum pond size. :D<br />
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BTW, what kind of BG (slot) limit codes ODNR have on that lake? I am an infrequent license purchaser since getting my own pond; the only lake I can remember off the top of my…
You are of course correct, Bill, that if you have the angler-hours needed for a certain number of acres, you can have a huge impact on BG numbers.<br />
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The guy who scrapes up a couple of hours a week for fishing will trouble impacting ponds of much size, as I'm sure you would agree after we negotiated a minimum pond size. :D<br />
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BTW, what kind of BG (slot) limit codes ODNR have on that lake? I am an infrequent license purchaser since getting my own pond; the only lake I can remember off the top of my head having a site-specific limit was for Crappie at Caeser Creek. 4. Angler harvest (not practi…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-01:2036984:Comment:18612008-04-01T02:46:23.474ZBill Codyhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BillCody
4. Angler harvest (not practical in a lot of situations)<br />
-especially in ponds of larger size.<br />
Well, this depends on how many anglers there are per acre of water and how often they fish for BG. Many anglers do not fish for BG but when skilled anglers target BG I think they can have a big impact on the number and size structure of BG/panfish especially in waters of one acre and less. IMO even on waters of 5 acre a couple adept anglers frequently targeting BG can significently affect BG numbers.…
4. Angler harvest (not practical in a lot of situations)<br />
-especially in ponds of larger size.<br />
Well, this depends on how many anglers there are per acre of water and how often they fish for BG. Many anglers do not fish for BG but when skilled anglers target BG I think they can have a big impact on the number and size structure of BG/panfish especially in waters of one acre and less. IMO even on waters of 5 acre a couple adept anglers frequently targeting BG can significently affect BG numbers. Numerous studies have shown that anglers, especially adept anglers, targeting harvestable sized BG during spawning season can have a big impact on the number of larger sized BG present. Significient numbers of harvestable BG/panfish can be removed in a few weeks or over the course of a year to a point the BG fishery is seriously depleated or reduced. Definately various studies in northern states have shown the population of large BG can be significiantly reduced if angling pressure focuses on harvest that contributes to overall mortality. I can cite several studies if desired. Of course most all these studies were performed on public lakes where angling pressure was high to moderate.<br />
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There is an 82 ac lake near me that the ODNR closely manages for producing large BG. There are two fishing seasons of open water and ice fishing where harvest is allowed and monitored. When the harvest quota of BG has been met additional harvest is prohibited until the next angling season. The lake commonly produces 9" & 10" BG utilizing an all natural food chain. Unlimited harvest would quickly ruin this notable BG fishery. Thus Ohio DNR has learned that intensively angling for BG can have a big impact on the numbers of larger sized BG. The regional fishery bilogist in charge of this fishery was an author of one of the above referenced research projects in Wisconsin.<br />
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Light fishing pressure and limited harvest obviously will not have a big impact of numbers of BG. But if a significant amount of adept angling pressure is applied to a per unit of water IMO it can have a significant impact or reduction in the numbers of BG in the 5"-10" range.<br />
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The normal size structure of a balanced BG population usually posesses lower numbers of individuals in each increasing size category or class. Thus if one was trying to achieve some sort of "balance" by decreasing numbers of smaller fish one would usually have to remove more numers of fish in the smaller size classes compared to the larger sizes.<br />
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I think one of the reasons that "Angler harvest (not practical in a lot of situations)" is because anglers often target larger predator fish and ignore intensive angling for the panfish. OR if panfish/BG are caught they are often released and not harvested. In numerous ponds with normal to above normal BG I have caught up to 1 BG per each 1-3 minutes of fishing time.<br />
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In my sampling study (presented at 1st Pond Boss Conference), my novice angling partner and I were able to catch 61 BG (4.5"-8.75) in one hour from a BG crowded pond. Five hrs of fishing would have produced 300 BG; a significant number from this 1/3 acre pond. Thus fishing can amount to 30 to 50 BG per angler hour of fishing. Thus 5 hrs of fishing can harvest 150 to 350 BG of various sizes. If one did this twice or three times per year in a one acre pond we are talking about randomly removing 400 to 600 BG that were 4"-8" long. I think that is a significant number of fish to remove from those size classes in 1 ac of water. Of course if BG are not abundant in a pond the catch reates will be less than 30 per angler hr. But in these ponds obviously BG are not over abundant and in not need of significant thinning.<br />
In conclusion, I think angling can harvest a large percentage of BG from a pond, someone just has to take the time to do it. Maybe this is the part that is not practical. I'm finally back from an unex…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-04-01:2036984:Comment:18412008-04-01T01:34:57.801ZBill Codyhttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BillCody
I'm finally back from an unexpected delay.<br />
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No 3. Triploidy (not currently available in bluegill)<br />
-Is it not possible or not economically feasible?<br />
Triploidy or polyploidy results when a fish has three or more sets of full chromosomes instead of the usual to sets that are found in normal fish (aka diploids). Normally the triploid fish are produced in the lab by a temperature shock or hydrostatic pressure (better method) shocking the freshly fertilized eggs. The shock causes a unusual splitting…
I'm finally back from an unexpected delay.<br />
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No 3. Triploidy (not currently available in bluegill)<br />
-Is it not possible or not economically feasible?<br />
Triploidy or polyploidy results when a fish has three or more sets of full chromosomes instead of the usual to sets that are found in normal fish (aka diploids). Normally the triploid fish are produced in the lab by a temperature shock or hydrostatic pressure (better method) shocking the freshly fertilized eggs. The shock causes a unusual splitting or paring of the chromosomes during very early egg development where extra chromosomes are added to the newly developing egg. As the "embryo" continues to grow the genetic aboration is replicated or peroduced in each subsequent cell division.<br />
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Triploid /polyploid fish usually posess reduced testes and ovaries and delayed sexual maturity. Few if any triploid fish produce sviable perm or eggs (gametes). Fertilized gametes rarely produce fish that hatch from the fertilized egg/embryo. Although some triploid fish have been crossed with normal fish but the viable offspring are usually greatly reduced in number. The benefit of triploid fish typically does ot expend energy or food reserves for spawning, thus growth rate is better. A population of triploid BG would not likely reproduce and their growth would be the best it can be for the productivity of the water body. A lot of the interest in polyploid fish has come from those in the aquaculture industry. Faster growing equals higher income. That is where the source of future polypoid fish will originate. If successful in the aquacultrue venue, the pond stocking industry would soon follow the trend. As far as I know most polyploid research has been performed with trout and to a limited extent tilapia, BG sunfish and some bass. Monster 'Gills and monster sm…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-03-28:2036984:Comment:15052008-03-28T02:32:19.302ZBruce Condellohttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/BruceCondello
Monster 'Gills and monster smallmouth may be conflicting goals. I have some ideas on how to accomplish this. As a matter of fact I am starting such a project, however we might want to move this to a separate blog. I'd like to keep these blogs kind of "on track", whatever that means, and this blog we'll try to continue to talk about efforts to keep bluegill number suppressed. ;-)
Monster 'Gills and monster smallmouth may be conflicting goals. I have some ideas on how to accomplish this. As a matter of fact I am starting such a project, however we might want to move this to a separate blog. I'd like to keep these blogs kind of "on track", whatever that means, and this blog we'll try to continue to talk about efforts to keep bluegill number suppressed. ;-) This is actually only the fif…tag:bigbluegill.ning.com,2008-03-27:2036984:Comment:14412008-03-27T17:02:30.017ZMike Penrosehttp://bigbluegill.ning.com/profile/MikePenrose
This is actually only the fifth year for the pond and my own approach to stocking what I want for "trophy fish" and trying to regulate and manage it accordingly. I would really like to have a seperate pond exclusively for "Monster-'Gills", Redears, and Smallmouth, but at the moment I am concentrating my efforts in my original pond. Any futher questions, comments, or concerns would be greatly appreciated.
This is actually only the fifth year for the pond and my own approach to stocking what I want for "trophy fish" and trying to regulate and manage it accordingly. I would really like to have a seperate pond exclusively for "Monster-'Gills", Redears, and Smallmouth, but at the moment I am concentrating my efforts in my original pond. Any futher questions, comments, or concerns would be greatly appreciated.