Your Pond

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Comment by Zach Pierce on September 17, 2012 at 2:12pm

If we had the money to fish one of the other ponds up for an all around fishing/food pond I would start over with this one and either do all male fish or make it a put and take like Tony has on here.

Since I have little girls that like to fish, and love to eat it even more it would not make since to kill this one off.

Also if I had the equipment to get most if not all the fish out I would consider that idea as well, then move them to another pond or have a large fish fry.

One of these days I will probably throw in the towel but for now I will struggle along and try to source some fish to get this in check.

Comment by Walt Foreman on September 17, 2012 at 11:48am

Wow, I didn't realize the pond was that small - 1/4 acre is very small.  I only have one pond that small that I'm working with presently, and it only has male bluegill in it, ten northern-strain and ten coppernose, all of which were stocked back in June.   I would have stocked twice that many, but the pond has had a duckweed problem for several years and is in the middle of woods so that it gets little sunlight and no breeze, and I was concerned about oxygen levels.  (My oxygen meter that I just paid $300 for last year crapped out on me two months after I bought it - don't ever buy Pinpoint brand meters.)

I never remove bass, of any size, from ponds I'm managing for big bluegill.  Every predator mouth you remove creates a void of predation, especially in a pond that small in which every bass makes a big difference.  Keep in mind, when you get enough bass in there, they aren't going to grow much if at all, because when there are enough of them to keep the bluegill reproduction in check, they will be stunted, which is what you want (in the bass).  

A flathead or blue cat could make a positive difference, but I wouldn't put many in a pond that small.  HSB are not going to control the bluegill as well as largemouth, and they'll also readily eat pellets, so they would not be much help.  If you're committed to trying to fix the pond, pike to me would be a better option, as they would prey on small bluegill and GSF all through the winter, whereas flatheads go nearly dormant in the winter.  And pike won't get as big as the catfish, and thus are less likely to be too much for a very small pond.  

I know you don't like the idea of starting over, but you would have drastically better fishing within a year if you rotenoned and re-stocked nothing but 50 or so 6" coppernose, or 25 coppernose and 25 northern-strain, along with a bunch of fatheads and crawfish.  I realize you're attached to the fish you have in there now, but just imagine what it would be like if every time you got a bite in that pond you knew it was from a bluegill that weighed between a pound and two pounds - which is what you'd have within two years if you stocked 6" bluegill and nothing else, and fed them daily.

How much FA did you have?  Fertilizing is the best way to get rid of FA.  Check your alkalinity first to make sure it's at least 20 ppm, lime if it isn't (you would only need about 500 lbs. of lime for a pond that size, which you could get for $50 or less at your local co-op), then start fertilizing next March.  Fertilize twice monthly until you get a bloom - if you use water-soluble fertilizer, $50 worth would last you two years - and then once a month through September, though typically you won't have to fertilize after June or July because lower water levels in the summer concentrate the nutrients so the bloom stays.  Not only will a plankton bloom eliminate your FA problem, but it will turbo-charge your food chain - I've grown trophy bluegill to 1.75 pounds in years past just by fertilizing regularly, keeping a high density of small bass, and thinning mid-sized bluegill.  

I've dealt with blue-green algae before.  Post a photo of it and I'll take a shot at identification.

I don't do it intentionally, but it does happen somewhat regularly that a bluegill or bass gets hooked in the gullet.  I never even attempt to get the hook out in these situations - I cut the line and let the fish go.  I've done this thousands of times, and never once had a fish roll up on the surface a few minutes later in the throes of death, whereas every time I've ever made a fish bleed trying to extract a swallowed hook, the fish has been on the surface within a couple minutes.  When I use live bait I use thin-wire aberdeen hooks, bronze (no gold plating to delay rust), never larger than #6, so if any hook could ever rust out quickly, these hooks are it.  

Comment by Zach Pierce on September 17, 2012 at 8:02am

This pond is small pond I would guess to be 1/4 acre give or take, but not sure now that it is so low due to the drought. I have not been out there for a few weeks now but the last time we went we had an algae bloom of some sort.

Not sure if it were Blue Green Algae or not since I am not an expert on it nor have I seen it in real life before. All I know is it was different from anything I have ever seen on this pond. Then again I have never seen anything but FA which is why I put just a few Tilapia in there, not sure if I even got both sexes for that matter. This is the first year I have not had FA, so not sure if they took care of it or it just did not come back this year.

I need to try and do the float trick again with my catfish road to see if I can estimate the depth again. I would think that I would have to stock fish at least 10" to keep the LMB from eating them.

I had to remove two tagged LMB I had stocked due to them getting hooked deep and I was sure they would not make it, nor had they grown much anyway. One of them I think I had caught like 4 times and he had only grown maybe 1/2 an inch and I believe he lost weight.

As far as the GSF, BG, HBG go I have not really caught all that many the last few times we went fishing. We used to get them as soon as the bait hit the water, now we have to wait, even with worms and that is hard to believe. Plus in my opinion all were big enough to eat but one BG and it was probably 4-5 inches long. So do you think I still need to try and source some WE or NP or just get some more LMB?

What size of LMB should I take out if any? 2 pounders, 3 pounders, 5 pounders. That is if we can even get them this large in this pond.

I want to get the CC out so maybe before winter or just after the thaw I can hammer them. I have even thought about getting a fyke net to see if I can sample the fish I have in the pond and possible get some of the CC out that way.

Would a Blue Cat, Flat Head or HSB be an option for this pond. What about a few trout for the winter?

Comment by Walt Foreman on September 16, 2012 at 10:09pm

I don't have any experience with yellow perch, though I know there are waters in my area that have them.  I have stocked walleye, only once, but they did fantastically well - a few years after I stocked them as 6", a nine-pound walleye was caught out of the pond.  That same pond had twenty 10-12" northern pike stocked into it the year before the walleye.  The pond is probably about three acres, and when I began working with it it was morbidly overpopulated with GSF - you could catch one every cast, from anywhere on the pond, and they averaged about 2".  I stocked forty largemouth that were in the pound range, twenty each from two four-acre ponds I was managing, the same year as the twenty northerns, and then a year later 75 6" walleye.  Four years later one of my best friends caught his PB largemouth, over eight pounds; another friend, who was helping me with the pond some, told me he was catching four- to six-pound bass every time he fished it.  And my grandfather got a bass to the boat that, if it was as large as my cousin said it was, would have pushed the state record.  About that same time someone caught a 36" pike.  Then I moved to California for ten years, and haven't fished the lake since.  But it was getting to be something special.  

How big is the particular pond we're discussing?  With a smaller pond, too many different species can make it more difficult to manage.  For example, if the pond we're discussing is the one that has tilapia, they're a major factor in why your bluegill are not bigger, and why you still have a lot of GSF in the pond.  Perch would compete with bluegill for food, especially if they eat pellets which if you got them from a hatchery they would.  

Walleye, on the other hand, would help in controlling the bluegill; and they might be a great option for you, actually, since they don't eat pellets, and Zetts ships them up to 12"
 each.  I thought about stocking some of them a few months ago in a four-acre pond that still has overpopulated bluegill but ended up stocking ten pike instead.  If you stocked thirty or forty 12" walleye this month or next (make sure to get them before it gets cold in PA and their ponds freeze for the winter), they would chow down on your GSF and small bluegill all winter, and your pond would be improved by the spring.    They will eat more in warmer weather, of course; but if you got them in there now, they would go on a feeding frenzy just like nearly every freshwater species does this time of year, and keep thinning out those runts all through the winter.  

A perfect plan might be to stock thirty 12" walleye and five 10-12" pike, if this is a one-acre pond.  If it's smaller, adjust the numbers downward - if it's half an acre, fifteen walleye and one or two pike.  

Comment by Zach Pierce on September 16, 2012 at 7:24pm

So the pike do better in warm water than walleye or yellow pearch? These are some fish I would like to consider if I redo the pond.

Comment by Walt Foreman on September 16, 2012 at 1:46pm

Wild bass would be ideal if you can get them because 95 out of 100 won't eat pellets, thus won't compete with your bluegill for food, and at the same time will eat many more bluegill.  

Pike would do fine in Oklahoma - I'm further south than you are and have had fantastic success both with northern pike and tiger muskie.  Presently I have tiger muskie in two ponds neither of which has any water over about 12' deep (they're significantly shallower than that at the moment with the drought).  Also, pike are able to tolerate low oxygen levels, which is why I recommended them instead of muskie, though muskie would probably also be fine.  All of the ponds I have stocked esox in have been warm-water ponds.  As far as sourcing, Zetts out of Pennsylvania ships 10-12" pike all over the country - I have had them shipped a few different times and never had one arrive dead.  If you have a commercial airport within decent driving distance, just have them ship air freight overnight and the shipping will be comparable to or less than the delivery charge most hatcheries charge (if you have the fish shipped to your door via FedEx or the like it will cost several times as much, several hundred bucks).  

Comment by Zach Pierce on September 16, 2012 at 1:11pm

Not sure a pike would live in the pond or not since is is not that deep and gets pretty warm here with low water. Not sure where I would source one anyway. Plus I have all those catfish in the pond that need to come out but have not had much luck catching them. I may try to add some more bass this fall if I can source some more wild ones and have time. I think next spring will be the most interesting to see as all my fish will be able to spawn then and who knows what type of winter we will have this year.

Comment by 10.5" RES Sharon on September 15, 2012 at 3:36pm

Well, I haven't had much time to fish this summer, but went today. They ARE getting bigger. These are 5 1/2 to 7 1/2" I wouldn't eat them if they were bigger. So, I guess I'm doing fine. Not looking for trophies, just like to have a fish fry occasionaly

Comment by Walt Foreman on September 15, 2012 at 1:25pm

Zach, even if you don't start over with your pond, it could still be greatly improved.  I'm just going off the top of my head from the last time we talked (wrote) on here about it, but if I remember correctly, you're still way low on bass.  If you've only caught one small bass, you're about 100 bass per acre low (I don't remember what size your pond is, know you have more than one).  Also, I know that at some point you stocked tilapia, though I'm not clear whether that was your bluegill pond or another one; if you still have tilapia in there, simply not stocking tilapia anymore would make a big difference within one year if you get some more bass in there.  Or, you could stock a northern pike or muskie or two - two of my three best bluegill ponds now have had tiger muskie in them for three years, and they were in worse shape than yours is now when I stocked the muskie.

Comment by Zach Pierce on September 15, 2012 at 1:08pm

That would be the way to go as 3 years later I do not have very many large gills. But then again I also like to eat everything in my pond so it was too hard for me to start over. The choice is yours an depending on time money and other factors you will have to decide the best option for you. Please keep us posted on your decision.

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